Redditch

[Sibboleth]

Oxford is also part of that funny little sub-region that stretches across the north of the West Country from Herefordshire. You notice it in the accents and buildings.

[finsobruce]

Jun 13, 2020 18:31:36 GMT Sibboleth said:

Oxford is also part of that funny little sub-region that stretches across the north of the West Country from Herefordshire. You notice it in the accents and buildings.

Maybe someone could come up with seat proposals for the Commons based on pre-Roman tribal boundaries?

[Deleted]

Jun 13, 2020 18:34:37 GMT finsobruce said:

Jun 13, 2020 18:31:36 GMT Sibboleth said:

Oxford is also part of that funny little sub-region that stretches across the north of the West Country from Herefordshire. You notice it in the accents and buildings.

Maybe someone could come up with seat proposals for the Commons based on pre-Roman tribal boundaries?

"Conservative hold Devizes & Newbury"
Devonwall plus most of Somerset as a region
SNP gain in Carlisle & Dumfries 

I like this idea

[Deleted]

Of course all constituency names will be of Pictish/Cumbric/Welsh/Old Brythonic origin just to make it as authentic as possible

[finsobruce]

Jun 13, 2020 18:41:42 GMT @europeanlefty said:

Jun 13, 2020 18:34:37 GMT finsobruce said:

Maybe someone could come up with seat proposals for the Commons based on pre-Roman tribal boundaries?

"Conservative hold Devizes & Newbury"
Devonwall plus most of Somerset as a region
SNP gain in Carlisle & Dumfries 

I like this idea

I was thinking more of "Strathclyde Welsh gain Glasgow" , "Brigantes hold Yorkshire North".

but your proposal has equal merit.

[finsobruce]

Jun 13, 2020 18:44:47 GMT @europeanlefty said:

Of course all constituency names will be of Pictish/Cumbric/Welsh/Old Brythonic origin just to make it as authentic as possible

Aberdeen would survive almost unscathed on that basis.

[Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells]

Jun 13, 2020 18:31:36 GMT Sibboleth said:

Oxford is also part of that funny little sub-region that stretches across the north of the West Country from Herefordshire. You notice it in the accents and buildings.

Maybe not Oxford itself because of the large non-local student and academic population, but towns like Didcot,Witney and villages like Eynsham,definitely. Even some people from Henley (on-Thames) and that end of Oxfordshire have a bit of a light country accent.

[Chris from Brum]

Jun 13, 2020 18:52:56 GMT Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells said:

Jun 13, 2020 18:31:36 GMT Sibboleth said:

Oxford is also part of that funny little sub-region that stretches across the north of the West Country from Herefordshire. You notice it in the accents and buildings.

Maybe not Oxford itself because of the large non-local student and academic population, but towns like Didcot,Witney and villages like Eynsham,definitely. Even some people from Henley (on-Thames) and that end of Oxfordshire have a bit of a light country accent.

Back in my day (early 80's), college staff were mostly locals, living in the city's suburbs, and the accent was the "country" one you describe. This certainly applied to the scouts I had as well as the kitchen and bar staff.

[Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells]

Jun 13, 2020 21:04:25 GMT Chris from Brum said:

Jun 13, 2020 18:52:56 GMT Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells said:

Maybe not Oxford itself because of the large non-local student and academic population, but towns like Didcot,Witney and villages like Eynsham,definitely. Even some people from Henley (on-Thames) and that end of Oxfordshire have a bit of a light country accent.

Back in my day (early 80's), college staff were mostly locals, living in the city's suburbs, and the accent was the "country" one you describe. This certainly applied to the scouts I had as well as the kitchen and bar staff.

Yeah, my mother grew up in Henley and was a teen/young adult in the 80s and,back in those days, it was the norm to have the mixed country-RP accent. With the further gentrification and increasing house prices in the area,it's in decline now in South Oxfordshire from what I encounter,but the Vale and places like Didcot may be different(partly because it has much stronger links with Newbury and West Berkshire,which is still very much the country end of Berks.

[Merseymike]

Jun 14, 2020 17:35:41 GMT Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells said:

Jun 13, 2020 21:04:25 GMT Chris from Brum said:

Back in my day (early 80's), college staff were mostly locals, living in the city's suburbs, and the accent was the "country" one you describe. This certainly applied to the scouts I had as well as the kitchen and bar staff.

Yeah, my mother grew up in Henley and was a teen/young adult in the 80s and,back in those days, it was the norm to have the mixed country-RP accent. With the further gentrification and increasing house prices in the area,it's in decline now in South Oxfordshire from what I encounter,but the Vale and places like Didcot may be different(partly because it has much stronger links with Newbury and West Berkshire,which is still very much the country end of Berks.

Yes. The old Marlow and area peasant accent has almost gone entirely. Our house was "air aise"

[Deleted]

All of the records from the Survey of English Dialects done in the 50s are freely available online at the British Library Archives

[Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells]

Jun 14, 2020 19:29:47 GMT @europeanlefty said:

All of the records from the Survey of English Dialects done in the 50s are freely available online at the British Library Archives

Noted. Will have a look.

[Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells]

Jun 14, 2020 18:55:33 GMT Merseymike said:

Jun 14, 2020 17:35:41 GMT Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells said:

Yeah, my mother grew up in Henley and was a teen/young adult in the 80s and,back in those days, it was the norm to have the mixed country-RP accent. With the further gentrification and increasing house prices in the area,it's in decline now in South Oxfordshire from what I encounter,but the Vale and places like Didcot may be different(partly because it has much stronger links with Newbury and West Berkshire,which is still very much the country end of Berks.

Yes. The old Marlow and area peasant accent has almost gone entirely. Our house was "air aise"

Probably what my great grandfather would have spoken like, he lived there for a large portion of his life. But I'd say that as more like "ar owse" if I was doing the Henley accent.

[Rural Radical]

Jun 12, 2020 8:38:35 GMT yellowperil said:

Jun 11, 2020 15:08:17 GMT John Chanin said:

Redditch is not a well known or much visited town. This is because it is a new town, lacking the features that attract visitors. But that does not mean it isn’t a pleasant place to live. It is a sizable place with a population of around 75,000 and an electorate of 55,000. It has its own district council, which includes some satellite villages outside the town, like Callow Hill, Astwood Bank and Feckenham, but even so is not quite large enough to form a constituency on its own, so one ward from Wychavon District is included. This is Inkberrow - a small village at the centre of an extensive rural ward to the south-west of the town, which gives the Conservatives a small boost. The village itself is reputedly the model for Ambridge in the Archers and has two pubs, both named after bulls, on opposite sides of its main street.

Redditch was originally a small town with some minor industry. It had some post-war development to the north west of the town in the Batchley area, and to the south in Southcrest, but was still a small town when declared as the Midlands only new town in the 1960s. Subsequently it has expanded in all directions. To the west it absorbed the old villages of Webheath, Crabbs Cross, and the alarmingly named Headless Cross. And an entirely new quarter was built in the 1970s and 1980s on the far side of the river Arrow. This is an attractive area of houses on tree-lined streets, divided into sections which have restricted access to motor vehicles, from the north Church Hill, Winyates, and Matchborough, each of which has two separate sections, and each of which has its own ward. Like most new towns it was built as a mixture of council and private housing, but extensive right to buy means that owner-occupation is now generally around 70%. There was always more council housing in Church Hill, which still has a third council housing, and this ward is generally Labour, while Matchborough is generally Conservative, and Winyates has lurched between BNP, Liberal Democrat, UKIP, Labour, and currently Conservative over the last 15 years. This part of Redditch as a whole is politically competitive.

The Arrow valley with its lake and extensive country park divides this section of the town from the larger part west of the river. The town centre contains the usual high street and attached mall, surrounded by the older housing of the original settlement. The Central ward which covers this area (and Southcrest) has much higher levels of private renting, but is occupationally similar to the eastern portion. It is normally Labour. North of the town centre is the Enfield industrial area, named after the old motorcycle manufacturer, along with modern housing on both sides of the Arrow. This area is politically marginal. South-east of the town centre is the industrial Lakeside area plus the new town estates of Lodge Park - older and less attractive than the section east of the river, and the safest Labour area in town. More modern estates sprawl out to the south, mostly council in origin, stretching almost as far as the small town of Studley, which is over the boundary in Warwickshire. This area is also Labour. West of the town centre is Batchley, with older housing along the Bromsgrove Road, but many new town estates in the hinterland. This has the highest level of council housing in the town, alongside some smart private housing, and is a politically competitive area. West of the main A448/A441 corridor are the old villages absorbed by the town. The core of these consists of small terraced houses, rather rundown, but the bulk of the housing is modern private estates - 80% owner-occupied, and with a much higher proportion of managerial workers. The three wards covering this area are solidly Conservative. Lastly Redditch District contains a small rural area with the large village of Astwood Bank. This is much more similar to mid-Worcestershire, and is very Conservative along with Inkberrow.

Overall as the statistics show this is below average in occupational and educational terms, but not by much. Although there is quite a lot of light industry, as in other new towns, there is also extensive commuting to Birmingham, as Redditch station is the southern terminus of Birmingham’s main commuter railway line. Politically the town itself is very marginal, although you wouldn’t know it from the 2019 election result. Redditch was 62% Leave at the referendum and this no doubt made a difference. But the added rural areas tip the balance to the Conservatives in an even year. Labour held on narrowly in 2005, probably aided by the high profile of local MP Jacqui Smith who was Home Secretary, and continued to live in the constituency, but lost in 2010. Present MP since 2017 is banker Rachel Maclean. The seat is undersized and any additions at the next review will improve the Conservative position.

Census data: owner-occupied 67% (314/573 in England & Wales), private rented 12% (447th), social rented 20% (174th).
                      :White 92%, Black 1%, South Asian 4%, Mixed 2%, Other 1%
                      : Managerial & professional 32% (356th), Routine & Semi-routine 34% (176nd)
                      :degree level 22%(403rd), No qualifications 40%(180th)

	2010	%	2015	%	2017	%	2019	%
Conservative	19,138	43.5%	20,771	47.1%	23,652	52.3%	27,907	63.3%
Labour	13,317	30.3%	13,717	31.1%	16,289	36.0%	11,871	26.9%
Liberal Democrat	7,750	17.6%	1,349	3.1%	1,173	2.6%	2,905	6.6%
UKIP	1,497	3.4%	7,133	16.2%	1,371	3.0%
Green	393	0.9%	960	2.2%	380	0.8%	1,384	3.1%
Others	1,923	4.4%	168	0.4%	2,338	5.2%
Majority	5,821	13.2%	7,054	16.0%	7,363	16.3%	16,036	36.4%

I query the description of Redditch as "the midlands only New Town". Obviously  it depends how you define the Midlands and you presumably exclude both Shropshire and Northants from your presumably narrow definition, otherwise Telford, Peterborough , Corby and Northampton all come into play. One might even make a case for arguing that MK is a midlands new town, even if somewhat incongruously it it is officially located in the South-East!

Tamworth is a new town to a point

[Chris from Brum]

Jun 15, 2020 8:42:03 GMT Rural Radical said:

Jun 12, 2020 8:38:35 GMT yellowperil said:

I query the description of Redditch as "the midlands only New Town". Obviously  it depends how you define the Midlands and you presumably exclude both Shropshire and Northants from your presumably narrow definition, otherwise Telford, Peterborough , Corby and Northampton all come into play. One might even make a case for arguing that MK is a midlands new town, even if somewhat incongruously it it is officially located in the South-East!

Tamworth is a new town to a point

A good point, and in a rather similar way to Redditch, developed as an extension to an historic town.  Telford is different, I think, in that (a) The name was new, and (b) there's a completely new town centre, unrelated to any of the older towns incorporated into the New Town (Wellington, Oakengates, Dawley etc).  Plus the local football team changed its name from Wellington Town to Telford United.

[Rural Radical]

Jun 15, 2020 10:08:09 GMT Chris from Brum said:

Jun 15, 2020 8:42:03 GMT Rural Radical said:

Tamworth is a new town to a point

A good point, and in a rather similar way to Redditch, developed as an extension to an historic town.  Telford is different, I think, in that (a) The name was new, and (b) there's a completely new town centre, unrelated to any of the older towns incorporated into the New Town (Wellington, Oakengates, Dawley etc).  Plus the local football team changed its name from Wellington Town to Telford United.

Telford is also a mix of old pit villages

[Devil Wincarnate]

Jun 15, 2020 10:08:09 GMT Chris from Brum said:

Jun 15, 2020 8:42:03 GMT Rural Radical said:

Tamworth is a new town to a point

A good point, and in a rather similar way to Redditch, developed as an extension to an historic town.  Telford is different, I think, in that (a) The name was new, and (b) there's a completely new town centre, unrelated to any of the older towns incorporated into the New Town (Wellington, Oakengates, Dawley etc).  Plus the local football team changed its name from Wellington Town to Telford United.

Andover and Basingstoke could be described in much the same way. A stark difference between the old town centre and the bits tacked on. Less so in, say, Warrington.

[Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells]

Jul 8, 2020 18:18:09 GMT Devil Wincarnate said:

Jun 15, 2020 10:08:09 GMT Chris from Brum said:

A good point, and in a rather similar way to Redditch, developed as an extension to an historic town.  Telford is different, I think, in that (a) The name was new, and (b) there's a completely new town centre, unrelated to any of the older towns incorporated into the New Town (Wellington, Oakengates, Dawley etc).  Plus the local football team changed its name from Wellington Town to Telford United.

Andover and Basingstoke could be described in much the same way. A stark difference between the old town centre and the bits tacked on. Less so in, say, Warrington.

Hmm, I'd agree with you on Basingstoke, but the new housebuilding in Andover isn't London overspill. It's making the town much closer to its original Hampshire middle class character,plus places like Charlton,which are relatively new,but not like the New Town at all in character!

[Devil Wincarnate]

Jul 11, 2020 1:42:21 GMT Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells said:

Jul 8, 2020 18:18:09 GMT Devil Wincarnate said:

Andover and Basingstoke could be described in much the same way. A stark difference between the old town centre and the bits tacked on. Less so in, say, Warrington.

Hmm, I'd agree with you on Basingstoke, but the new housebuilding in Andover isn't London overspill. It's making the town much closer to its original Hampshire middle class character,plus places like Charlton,which are relatively new,but not like the New Town at all in character!

Oh I don't disagree with you on the newer stuff, but I meant the original town compared to the London overspill parts from the Fifties and Sixties. I used to be based in an office block by the site of the old Andover Town railway station, and the short walk between that and the original centre and the water mill was like passing between two unrelated towns.

[yellowperil]

There is a difference between proper New Towns, which had the benefit, (or should that be "benefit"?) of a Development Corporation, and Expanded Towns which sometimes had the same level of growth but through overspill arrangements and muddling through with the existing local government arrangements. So Basingstoke, Andover and of course Ashford are all examples of the latter and they are different from Redditch, Telford, etc, which were examples of the former.