slon
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Post by slon on May 14, 2020 9:42:32 GMT
More an alternative living environment than an alternative political history
Cities have grown up with a commercial and/or industrial centre, and housing growing out from this. In the old days the people could walk to the place of work in the centre, and perhaps village like communities grew up around housing. As the cities grew, the distances expanded, transport improved, and congestion increased leading to plans for public transport systems ... the village communities were absorbed and everyting happened in the city cetre.
With distance working and less dependence on mass employment industries ould it be possible to imagine a modern city without a centre, just a series of linked villages providing local ameneties ... and with no public transport?
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slon
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Post by slon on May 14, 2020 13:09:36 GMT
Then moving along a bit ..... Would it be possible for a present day city to reorientate itself if public transport were closed for a considerable time? I am a bit of a fan of the concept spontaneous order ... so thinking about how people could adapt and create new systems rather than implement some master plan from above. I would expect popup shops and eating places where entrepreneurs bring into the local area goods and services previously only available in city centre. I would also expect more local activities and sports, derilict pubs and clubs to re-open
perhaps people would organise their work around where they live rather than living in one place and working somewhere else.
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slon
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Post by slon on May 19, 2020 10:31:40 GMT
There is another way to look at this ... from developments inspired by eco warriors The 20 minute city.
Idea here is a city where everything is in 20-minute neighbourhoods. Maximum 20 minutes walk to most things you need: shopping, business services, education, community facilities, recreational and sporting resources, and some jobs.
It is a proposal for Melbourne Oz long-term land-use plan, Plan Melbourne, other cities have similar, Paris for example and some thoughts for Manchester.
Eco people of course want public transport to 'link' the neighbourhoods and no one would need a car. I think that could be turned around to use the neighbourhoods to reduce congestion by providing local services but integrate the whole thing by means of cars with a big reduction in public transport.
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Post by Andrew_S on Jun 6, 2020 22:54:32 GMT
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slon
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Post by slon on Jun 7, 2020 17:21:31 GMT
No one really needs them ... so why not just stop running the things |
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Post by jimboo2017 on Jun 25, 2020 10:11:21 GMT
Just as the Leven Rail Link gets the go ahead
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 25, 2020 10:13:21 GMT
Public transport will in the end be replaced by private transport because it is an improvement. A private space that connects your exact location to your exact destination at the precise time of your choosing then allows you to have a change of heart even half way thorough the journey is an improvement on a shared space that makes an approximate connection at an Approximate time So we will have driverless cars or pods to be more accurate and while it will be possible to hire by the minute or mile many people will prefer their own You'd have to do something about the road networks to make that happen. We don't have anywhere near the traffic issues of say Manchester, let alone London, but trying to imagine everyone who needs to get to work on the train or bus decanting into individual vehicles - the roads aren't up to it. Just not the space |
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Post by bjornhattan on Jun 25, 2020 11:13:46 GMT
With automated cars, the amount of space is instantly doubled because they iron out the traffic jams, the stop/start, they drive closer together safely. The basic pod will be small, short, a bit higher. Two lanes will become three, they will use the bus lanes without impeding buses until they put them out of business, they will use the cycle lanes without impeding bikes. If they are light and made of plastic, then double-deck lanes become increasingly viable, city-centre car parks become obsolete because you send the car off somewhere cheaper to park/refuel/valet and in any case home shopping and working are going to make much of travel obsolete anyway. Busses are history. Intercity trains and flights will survive What happens to busses which aren't urban but instead connect major centres? I quite often take the bus from Oxford to Swindon or from Newcastle to Middlesbrough - both are high frequency and get really busy, despite covering long distances. I can see automated cars replacing some urban services, or even quiet rural routes, but not these key trunk routes. |
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slon
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Post by slon on Jun 25, 2020 11:22:29 GMT
Public transport will in the end be replaced by private transport because it is an improvement. A private space that connects your exact location to your exact destination at the precise time of your choosing then allows you to have a change of heart even half way thorough the journey is an improvement on a shared space that makes an approximate connection at an Approximate time So we will have driverless cars or pods to be more accurate and while it will be possible to hire by the minute or mile many people will prefer their own You'd have to do something about the road networks to make that happen. We don't have anywhere near the traffic issues of say Manchester, let alone London, but trying to imagine everyone who needs to get to work on the train or bus decanting into individual vehicles - the roads aren't up to it. Just not the space That supposes the old work patterns where everyone has a job in the middle of town and lives on the outskirts (or indeed lives in another town 50 miles distant) |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 25, 2020 11:25:54 GMT
You'd have to do something about the road networks to make that happen. We don't have anywhere near the traffic issues of say Manchester, let alone London, but trying to imagine everyone who needs to get to work on the train or bus decanting into individual vehicles - the roads aren't up to it. Just not the space That supposes the old work patterns where everyone has a job in the middle of town and lives on the outskirts (or indeed lives in another town 50 miles distant) And changing that would be a far greater and more complicated activity still. |
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 25, 2020 13:29:39 GMT
Public transport will in the end be replaced by private transport because it is an improvement. A private space that connects your exact location to your exact destination at the precise time of your choosing then allows you to have a change of heart even half way thorough the journey is an improvement on a shared space that makes an approximate connection at an Approximate time So we will have driverless cars or pods to be more accurate and while it will be possible to hire by the minute or mile many people will prefer their own . I can see the general trend towards this - it's been going on for a century - but I think public transport will still exist in the "bulk" sector - going to work - and in the leisure sector - the 840 Coastliner bus, where the experience of the journey is as much what you're buying as the translocation to your destination. |
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slon
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Post by slon on Jun 25, 2020 14:56:01 GMT
Work and public transport
how many people use public transport to get to work?
I started work after uni in 1972 and other than a couple of months here and there was employed full time until I retired last year.
In all that time, and through more jobs than I care to remember I don't think I ever used public transport to get to and from work.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jun 25, 2020 14:59:10 GMT
Work and public transport how many people use public transport to get to work? The Census is your friend. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 25, 2020 16:31:57 GMT
Work and public transport how many people use public transport to get to work? I started work after uni in 1972 and other than a couple of months here and there was employed full time until I retired last year. In all that time, and through more jobs than I care to remember I don't think I ever used public transport to get to and from work. Did you work on a city centre? Do you own a car? Do you work a few minutes walk from your home? |
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slon
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Post by slon on Jun 25, 2020 17:51:24 GMT
Work and public transport how many people use public transport to get to work? I started work after uni in 1972 and other than a couple of months here and there was employed full time until I retired last year. In all that time, and through more jobs than I care to remember I don't think I ever used public transport to get to and from work. Did you work on a city centre? Do you own a car? Do you work a few minutes walk from your home? yes ... ish yes no .... for some jobs distant from my home I rented a flat to use during the week
btw ... of my 46 years of work about 38 were through my own companies, or at least with me as a director and co-owner, which did not mean I could do what I wanted, it meant I had to do what was necessary.
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Jun 25, 2020 18:25:48 GMT
Work and public transport how many people use public transport to get to work? I started work after uni in 1972 and other than a couple of months here and there was employed full time until I retired last year. In all that time, and through more jobs than I care to remember I don't think I ever used public transport to get to and from work. I ordinarily would, albeit in the slightly weird world of living within walking distance of an Intercity station and working in a central enough location a few stops down the line. Much though I miss unwinding with a glass of wine or beer on the train on the way home, this working from home thing is generally brilliant in the not having to get up at 5.30am sort of way. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 25, 2020 22:55:46 GMT
And changing that would be a far greater and more complicated activity still. Michael. The free market can do that. Actually the only place I can think of which could do it is China. The huge new cities which were built before they had any residents which you go through on a bullet train ride. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jun 26, 2020 12:31:42 GMT
The future lies in the tunnels/loops that Elon Musk wants to build. Them and hyperloops.
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Jun 26, 2020 13:08:28 GMT
And the future will actually be different than all the suggestions above.
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slon
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Post by slon on Jun 26, 2020 14:00:16 GMT
shall I tell you about hamster tubes? does this help?
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