Constituencies we may never have

[Deleted]

Apr 25, 2020 11:29:12 GMT John Chanin said:

Apr 25, 2020 10:34:49 GMT 🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️ said:

Could do this with existing constituencies too. Cynon Valley could become Aberdare, Aberaman, Aberpennar, and Abercynon. Rhondda could become Treherbert, Treorchy, Ton Pentre, Tonypandy, Trealaw, and Tylorstown. Brecon and Radnorshire could become Llandrindod, Llangunllo, Llanbadarn Fawr, Llanbadarn Fynydd, Llanyre, Llanelwedd, Llanafanfawr, Llanwrtyd, Llangors, Llangattock, and Llangynidr.

If I remember correctly Llan is the Welsh equivalent of the Anglo-Saxon ton, or ham. 

Llan is "church" or "church of", from Greek/Latin ecclesia.

[John Chanin]

Apr 25, 2020 11:36:57 GMT @goodoldcause2 said:

Apr 25, 2020 11:29:12 GMT John Chanin said:

If I remember correctly Llan is the Welsh equivalent of the Anglo-Saxon ton, or ham. 

Llan is "church" or "church of", from Greek/Latin ecclesia.

Now you've got me to look it up on Wikipedia, which agrees with me.  Of course Wikipedia isn't always right, but it does give examples of non-religious llan names. 

[Deleted]

Apr 25, 2020 11:40:01 GMT John Chanin said:

Apr 25, 2020 11:36:57 GMT @goodoldcause2 said:

Llan is "church" or "church of", from Greek/Latin ecclesia.

Now you've got me to look it up on Wikipedia, which agrees with me.  Of course Wikipedia isn't always right, but it does give examples of non-religious llan names. 

I think we can call this a draw. 

"Llan" relates to an enclosed space, which was usually religious in origin, but not always. The word relates to the space rather than any church later built on it.

LINK

[🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️]

Apr 25, 2020 11:29:12 GMT John Chanin said:

Apr 25, 2020 10:34:49 GMT 🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️ said:

Could do this with existing constituencies too. Cynon Valley could become Aberdare, Aberaman, Aberpennar, and Abercynon. Rhondda could become Treherbert, Treorchy, Ton Pentre, Tonypandy, Trealaw, and Tylorstown. Brecon and Radnorshire could become Llandrindod, Llangunllo, Llanbadarn Fawr, Llanbadarn Fynydd, Llanyre, Llanelwedd, Llanafanfawr, Llanwrtyd, Llangors, Llangattock, and Llangynidr.

If I remember correctly Llan is the Welsh equivalent of the Anglo-Saxon ton, or ham. 

Llan is more of an ecclesiatical enclosure, and the name that follows is generally that of a saint, although there are a couple of examples of Llan and Glan (a river bank) getting muddled up – where English equivalents correspond directly, examples of Llan tend to begin with "Saint", e.g. Llansanffraid Gwynllwg and St Bride's Wentloog are the same place – but "ton" examples definitely exist, e.g. Llanbedr Fynydd = Peterston super Montem (deserted mediaeval village, but it still counts!), and Llangatwg Nedd is Cadoxton-juxta-Neath (it's also interesting how the "English" names here are basically macaronic Latin). Tre(f) – as in those places in the Rhondda – would be more equivalent to the Old English ham(e) – "mynd tua'r dre(f)" basically means to go home.

I don't know what it says about Wales that ecclesiastical placenames are quite so widespread – of the cities of England, the only example of one using a saint's name that immediately springs to mind is St Alban's. Or maybe the question should be why Westminster isn't St Stephen's on Thames or something.

[Deleted]

I've found this post from one of the zombie reviews, constituency names which had never been used before (or indeed, ever, I suppose)

Jun 25, 2015 23:16:11 GMT @Deleted said:

The following is a compiled list of never before used constituency names proposed by the four Boundary Commissions in the “zombie” review.

Northern Ireland

*Belfast South East
*Belfast South West
*Coleraine and North Antrim
*Glenshane

Scotland
*Airdrie and Coatbridge South
*Angus East and Kincardine
*Angus West and East Perthshire
*Argyll, Bute and South Lochaber
*Ayr North, Troon and Cumnock
*Ayrshire Central and Arran
*Caithness, Sutherland, Ross and Cromarty
*Clackmannanshire and Dunfermline West
*Clydesdale and Larkhall
*Cumbernauld and Coatbridge North
*Deeside and Gordon
*East Dunbartonshire and Kilsyth
*East Kilbride and Rutherglen
*East Renfrewshire and Hairmyres
*Edinburgh Central and Leith
*Edinburgh South East
*Galloway, Ayr South and Carrick
*Inverclyde and Renfrewshire West
*Inverness and Skye
*Kirkcaldy and Glenrothes
*Midlothian and Tweeddale
*Motherwell, Wishaw and Bellshill
*Paisley and Renfrew
*Perth and Kinross-shire
*Renfrewshire South and Ayrshire North
*Stirling and Crieff
*West Dunbartonshire and Bearsden North

England (excluding London)
*Aldridge, Brownhills and Bloxwich
*Ashton-under-Lyne and Denton
*Barnsley North and Hemsworth
*Barnsley South
*Basildon and Thurrock East
*Berwick, Alnwick and Morpeth
*Bideford, Bude and Launceston
*Billericay and Great Dunmow
*Birmingham Erdington and Castle Bromwich
*Birmingham Harborne
*Blyth and Ashington
*Bodmin and St Austell
*Bolton North and Darwen
*Bootle and North Liverpool
*Bournemouth West and Bourne Valley
*Bradford East and Horsforth
*Braintree and Witham
*Bridgnorth, Wellington and The Wrekin
*Brighton East and Seahaven
*Bromsgrove and Droitwich
*Burnham and Glastonbury
*Burnley and Accrington East
*Canterbury and Faversham
*Chatham and Malling
*Coalville and Keyworth
*Colne Valley and Denby Dale
*Crosby and Maghull
*Daventry and Lutterworth
*Derby East
*Derby West
*Didcot and Wantage
*Dudley East and Oldbury
*Gateshead East and Jarrow
*Goole and Howden
*Grimsby North and Barton
*Grimsby South and Cleethorpes
*Harwich and Clacton
*Hazel Grove and Poynton
*Henley and Thame
*Herne Bay
*Isle of Wight East
*Isle of Wight West
*Kenilworth and Dorridge
*Kingston upon Hull West and Haltemprice
*Kingswood and Keynsham
*Leeds Metropolitan and Ossett
*Leeds South East and Castleford
*Leeds West, Pudsey and Tong
*Lewes and Uckfield
*Liverpool Riverside and Walton
*Ludlow and Leominster
*Luton North and Dunstable
*Malvern and Ledbury
*Manchester Gorton and Reddish North
*Mersey Banks and Weaver
*Mid Bedfordshire and Harpenden
*Mid Dorset
*Newcastle upon Tyne North and Cramlington
*Norfolk Coastal
*North East Essex
*Nottingham North and Hucknall
*Nottingham South and West Bridgford
*Penrith and Solway
*Rossendale and Oswaldtwistle
*Rotherham and Sheffield East
*Rotherham North
*Sheffield Hallam and Penistone
*Sheffield North and Dodworth
*South East Hertfordshire
*South Gloucestershire East
*South Gloucestershire West
*Southend East and Rochford
*St Neots and Huntingdon
*Stockton North and Aycliffe
*Stourbridge and Dudley
*Tavistock and Plympton
*The Cities of London and Westminster
*The Weald
*Truro and Newquay
*Walsall West
*Warminster and Shaftesbury
*Washington
*Wells and North East Somerset
*West Cumbria
*West Wiltshire
*Wirral Deeside
*Wisbech and Downham Market

London
*Bexleyheath and Erith
*Sidcup and Welling
*Thamesmead and Plumstead
*Wembley
*Greenford and Northolt
*Willesden
*Islington South and Holborn
*Camden Town and Regent’s Park
*Carshalton and Coulsdon
*Ealing Central
*Hammersmith and Acton
*Southall and Heston
*Edmonton and Tottenham Hale
*Eltham and Charlton
*Greenwich and Lewisham Central
*Stamford Hill and South Tottenham
*Bethnal Green and Shoreditch
*Hayes and Feltham
*Brentworth and Isleworth
*Hampton
*Wimbledon and Coombe
*Clapham and Streatham
*Battersea and Vauxhall
*Bermondsey and South Bank
*Deptford and Rotherhithe
*East Ham and Loxford
*Bow and Stratford
*Richmond and Twickenham
*Dulwich and Peckham
*Poplar and Stepney

Wales
*Conwy and Colwyn
*Denbigh and North Montgomeryshire
*Brecon, Radnor and Montgomery
*Flint and North Denbighshire
*Gwynedd
*Wrexham Maelor
*Ynys Môn a Bangor
*Caerfyrddin
*Ceredigion and North Pembrokeshire
*South Pembrokeshire
*Cardiff North and South West Gwent
*The Vale of Glamorgan
*Aberavon and Ogmore
*Merthyr Tydfil, Rhymney and Lower Cynon
*Rhondda and Aberdare
*Gower and Swansea West
*Neath and the Swansea Valley

[Robert Waller]

Ah, @deleted ...

Wonder whatever happened to him ....

[yellowperil]

Apr 26, 2020 13:12:06 GMT Robert Waller said:

Ah, @deleted ...

Wonder whatever happened to him ....

I think there are a number of @deleted folk. How do we tell this one from his brothers?

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2020 13:24:26 GMT yellowperil said:

Apr 26, 2020 13:12:06 GMT Robert Waller said:

Ah, @deleted ...

Wonder whatever happened to him ....

I think there are a number of @deleted folk. How do we tell this one from his brothers?

Proboards recently decided to erase all trace of deleted members' identities except in posts where they were directly quoted.

This means I can no longer easily find my own old posts under my former identity.

[🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️]

Apr 25, 2020 14:42:08 GMT @pr1berske said:

I've found this post from one of the zombie reviews, constituency names which had never been used before (or indeed, ever, I suppose)

Jun 25, 2015 23:16:11 GMT @Deleted said:

[...]
*The Vale of Glamorgan
[...]

Never before has it taken the definite article... [rolls eyes]

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2020 17:09:09 GMT 🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️ said:

Apr 25, 2020 14:42:08 GMT @pr1berske said:

I've found this post from one of the zombie reviews, constituency names which had never been used before (or indeed, ever, I suppose)

Never before has it taken the definite article... [rolls eyes]

That's the point, it didn't have the definite article until the Welsh Commission proposed so.

[🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️]

Apr 26, 2020 17:54:21 GMT @pr1berske said:

Apr 26, 2020 17:09:09 GMT 🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️ said:

Never before has it taken the definite article... [rolls eyes]

That's the point, it didn't have the definite article until the Welsh Commission proposed so.

The English language dictated this long before Prof Robert McNabb and his fellow travellers stuck their oars in.

[Foggy]

Apr 26, 2020 13:24:26 GMT yellowperil said:

Apr 26, 2020 13:12:06 GMT Robert Waller said:

Ah, @deleted ...

Wonder whatever happened to him ....

I think there are a number of @deleted folk. How do we tell this one from his brothers?

And indeed, in at least one infamous case, from his sisters? 

[therealriga]

Apr 25, 2020 14:42:08 GMT @pr1berske said:

I've found this post from one of the zombie reviews, constituency names which had never been used before (or indeed, ever, I suppose)

Jun 25, 2015 23:16:11 GMT @Deleted said:

The following is a compiled list of never before used constituency names proposed by the four Boundary Commissions in the “zombie” review.

London
*Greenford and Northolt
*Poplar and Stepney

Of course, there was a "Stepney and Poplar" constituency from 1974 to 1983, so this is near enough. The other one confuses me. Greenford and Northolt are two of the main three communities in Ealing North, along with Perivale. Presumably, this would have just been an expanded version of Ealing North, meaning Greenford and Northolt would be less, not more important in that, so why the (not gonna happen) name change?

[greatkingrat]

The proposed constituency included one ward (Sudbury) from Brent. So presumably they felt the name Ealing North would be inappropriate as the constituency was no longer entirely in Ealing.

[therealriga]

Apr 27, 2020 14:34:23 GMT greatkingrat said:

The proposed constituency included one ward (Sudbury) from Brent. So presumably they felt the name Ealing North would be inappropriate as the constituency was no longer entirely in Ealing.

Meh. If so, just another example of the commission's inconsistency. There are any number of constituencies following the "local authority - compass point" nomenclature, which feature wards outside that local authority. To take the closest example I can think of, when they extended Wolverhampton South East by adding 1 Dudley ward, they didn't rename it Bilston and Blakenhall. 

[J.G.Harston]

Bringing this over here...

Apr 30, 2020 10:26:21 GMT Strontium Dog said:

Apr 29, 2020 15:34:52 GMT J.G.Harston said:

If the entire world poplation lived at the same density as Mong Kok, they would fit in Wales. And at the density of Kowloon Walled City, the Isle of Wight.

At which point the government may deign to finally give them that second MP...

Would there be an argument for the Isle of Wight having specific local circumstances to justify it being a two-member Parliamentary seat? Any way of slicing the island in two is going to cause a run on pitchforks.

[Chris from Brum]

Apr 30, 2020 14:18:42 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Bringing this over here...

Apr 30, 2020 10:26:21 GMT Strontium Dog said:

At which point the government may deign to finally give them that second MP...

Would there be an argument for the Isle of Wight having specific local circumstances to justify it being a two-member Parliamentary seat? Any way of slicing the island in two is going to cause a run on pitchforks.

Prior to 1995, when the current unitary authority was created, there were two districts, Medina and South Wight, the former containing Newport, Cowes and Ryde, the other covering the rural hinterland plus Sandown, Shanklin and Ventnor.  They weren't equal in population - Medina was about 30% bigger than South Wight - but it could be a basis for negotiation.

[J.G.Harston]

Apr 30, 2020 14:34:30 GMT Chris from Brum said:

Apr 30, 2020 14:18:42 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Bringing this over here...
Would there be an argument for the Isle of Wight having specific local circumstances to justify it being a two-member Parliamentary seat? Any way of slicing the island in two is going to cause a run on pitchforks.

Prior to 1995, when the current unitary authority was created, there were two districts, Medina and South Wight, the former containing Newport, Cowes and Ryde, the other covering the rural hinterland plus Sandown, Shanklin and Ventnor.  They weren't equal in population - Medina was about 30% bigger than South Wight - but it could be a basis for negotiation.

I seem to remember that that was forced on the local government commission as the 1973 Act made no provision for a county to contain no districts or only one district.

[Pete Whitehead]

Apr 30, 2020 14:42:28 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Apr 30, 2020 14:34:30 GMT Chris from Brum said:

Prior to 1995, when the current unitary authority was created, there were two districts, Medina and South Wight, the former containing Newport, Cowes and Ryde, the other covering the rural hinterland plus Sandown, Shanklin and Ventnor.  They weren't equal in population - Medina was about 30% bigger than South Wight - but it could be a basis for negotiation.

I seem to remember that that was forced on the local government commission as the 1973 Act made no provision for a county to contain no districts or only one district.

It's strange that you remember the 1973 Act but have forgotten the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Act 2011

[greatkingrat]

Apr 30, 2020 14:18:42 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Bringing this over here...

Apr 30, 2020 10:26:21 GMT Strontium Dog said:

At which point the government may deign to finally give them that second MP...

Would there be an argument for the Isle of Wight having specific local circumstances to justify it being a two-member Parliamentary seat? Any way of slicing the island in two is going to cause a run on pitchforks.

Why? The zombie review didn't seem to cause particular controversy in the Isle of Wight. It is no different to various cities that are the size of two seats and are split in two.