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Post by yellowperil on Apr 9, 2020 16:20:50 GMT
North Thanet was created as a new constituency in 1983, although its short lived predecessor, Thanet West, only itself formed in 1974, covered much of the same area, and it might be argued was a better descriptor for the new seat. Like South Thanet however, the constituency extends beyond the confines of the island after which it is named, crossing the Wantsum channel, once a proper arm of the sea able to take sizeable ships, but now scarcely more than a ditch, to include the north-eastern corner of Canterbury district ( and that whole district has city status). This bit of the city of Canterbury though, comprising six Canterbury wards, has probably more in common with Thanet than to Canterbury proper, the city centre with its major cathedral, medieval city walls and its two universities. The part of Canterbury within the North Thanet constituency includes a sizeable seaside resort , Herne Bay, and a sprinkling of villages in a seaside and rural settings very similar to the interior of Thanet island.
The newly created constituency had a 40 year old hopeful called Roger Gale representing the Conservative cause, against a fairly strong challenge from the SDP, and there were also Labour and BUP candidates to contend with. The Labour candidate, eventually trailing in a distant third, was one Cherie Blair. 37 years later, Gale is still in place, having now won North Thanet in ten successive general elections. He was knighted in 2012 and made a Privy Councillor in 2019, but never made it to the ministerial ranks- PPS was as high as he ever went in that regard.
Tourism is pretty central to the economy of North Thanet, not only in and around Margate but also the Herne Bay area. All British seaside resorts have had their ups and downs over the years that this constituency has existed, and Margate has had its travails, not least the somewhat chequered history of the Dreamland amusement centre, but my feeling is that there has been less angst on this side of the island , and there has recently been a big bounce back usually associated with the building of the Turner Contemporary art complex. North Thanet has always felt a less volatile place than South Thanet, and the threat to Conservative hegemony, from either Labour or UKIP, while always there, has been more muted than in South Thanet. No Stephen Ladyman, no Nigel Farage.
The stronger Labour areas were mostly in the Margate area. Margate Central is a pretty mixed area with some very nice period houses among the grot, but usually votes Labour, as do the built-up inland wards of Salmestone and Dane Valley. The coastal area going west from central Margate, gets increasingly solidly Conservative - Westgate still a bit mixed, Birchington a lot safer Tory territory. The big rural ward of Thanet Villages has tended to mix Conservatives with Indies. The Canterbury coastal part of the constituency now looks much the same as Birchington, but pre-coalition Herne Bay often voted Lib Dem, while the single member ward of Marshside, the bit of the Kent coalfield within Canterbury, voted Labour , until it was abolished in the last review. In 2015, here as in South Thanet there was the huge rise in UKIP mainly at the expense of Labour, who were reduced to just one seat, in Margate Central. The Thanet district seats within the constituency went from Con 12, Lab 7, Ind 3 in 2011 to UKIP 13, Con 7, Lab 1 , Ind 1 in 2015, and then back to Con 12, Lab 5, Thanet Independent 4, Green 1 in 2019. Note that the Thanet Independents are the successors to UKIP and they have partly hung on, mostly in the former Labour areas like Dane Valley. The Conservatives are more or less back to where they were before in the Thanet part of the constituency and much more entrenched in the Canterbury coastal area.
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Post by yellowperil on Apr 9, 2020 20:05:12 GMT
Again, there are some differences within the constituency with some areas which have elected Labour councillors, but others where the Conservatives reign supreme. I'd put something in about that, even though it is certainly still a safe seat. Indeed I will when I get there- hence the tbc note! I know some people prefer to write the whole thing off line and transfer it when its all done and polished, I prefer to put early drafts on as I write , and then break off to get on with life. Even under present conditions there are times to get on with living! |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Apr 9, 2020 20:30:17 GMT
A strong SDP challenge in 1983 ?
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Post by yellowperil on Apr 10, 2020 8:39:19 GMT
A strong SDP challenge in 1983 ? Okay, maybe I should qualify that a bit! I was there at the time, and for a while it seemed like a genuine challenge. The actual result suggests I might have over-egged it a bit, given that Gale finished with more than twice MacMillan's vote. It was still a strong challenge compared with how Cherie fared, 26.7% of the vote as against 14.1%. Would you accept "a fairly strong challenge" or is that still over-egging it in your view? My view over all these years probably still influenced by maybe wildly overoptimistic canvassing typical of those heady days! |
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 10, 2020 8:50:38 GMT
A strong SDP challenge in 1983 ? Okay, maybe I should qualify that a bit! I was there at the time, and for a while it seemed like a genuine challenge. The actual result suggests I might have over-egged it a bit, given that Gale finished with more than twice MacMillan's vote. It was still a strong challenge compared with how Cherie fared, 26.7% of the vote as against 14.1%. Would you accept "a fairly strong challenge" or is that still over-egging it in your view? My view over all these years probably still influenced by maybe wildly overoptimistic canvassing typical of those heady days! You are very seriously over-egging an in essence non pudding. |
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 10, 2020 9:20:13 GMT
And all this 'on the island guff': What is that all about? It has no characteristics of being an island at all. It does not in any way feel like or look like an island or even a former island. No one feels they are on an island.
Now the Black Isle in Ross does really feel like an island and has very poor land connections with major routes in and out clearly over water. The Isle of Axholme is lowly and in bad flood conditions can remind one of the reasons for the name. Thanet is a reasonable area describer name, but Isle of Thanet is just silly.
This is a Conservative leaning area however one draws the boundaries and it is essentially quite a conservative populace getting more conservative over time. Minor parties can whip themselve into little fervours from time to time but usually dissipate potential in being divided between themselves. It takes one strong dominant challange at the moment of great weakness and unpopularity by the Conservatives for Thanet to be close to vulnerable; at which moment many constituencies are vulnerable as 1997 demonstrates.
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Post by yellowperil on Apr 10, 2020 9:36:11 GMT
And all this 'on the island guff': What is that all about? It has no characteristics of being an island at all. It does not in any way feel like or look like an island or even a former island. No one feels they are on an island. Now the Black Isle in Ross does really feel like an island and has very poor land connections with major routes in and out clearly over water. The Isle of Axholme is lowly and in bad flood conditions can remind one of the reasons for the name. Thanet is a reasonable area describer name, but Isle of Thanet is just silly. This is a Conservative leaning area however one draws the boundaries and it is essentially quite a conservative populace getting more conservative over time. Minor parties can whip themselve into little fervours from time to time but usually dissipate potential in being divided between themselves. It takes one strong dominant challange at the moment of great weakness and unpopularity by the Conservatives for Thanet to be close to vulnerable; at which moment many constituencies are vulnerable as 1997 demonstrates. I have a lot of friends in Thanet and they feel they are on an island. I think it has some justification looking at the south where the Stour is still quite a divide, but a bit more dubious on this western side where the Wantsum is reduced, as I have said, to a ditch! |
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 10, 2020 9:46:44 GMT
And all this 'on the island guff': What is that all about? It has no characteristics of being an island at all. It does not in any way feel like or look like an island or even a former island. No one feels they are on an island. Now the Black Isle in Ross does really feel like an island and has very poor land connections with major routes in and out clearly over water. The Isle of Axholme is lowly and in bad flood conditions can remind one of the reasons for the name. Thanet is a reasonable area describer name, but Isle of Thanet is just silly. This is a Conservative leaning area however one draws the boundaries and it is essentially quite a conservative populace getting more conservative over time. Minor parties can whip themselve into little fervours from time to time but usually dissipate potential in being divided between themselves. It takes one strong dominant challange at the moment of great weakness and unpopularity by the Conservatives for Thanet to be close to vulnerable; at which moment many constituencies are vulnerable as 1997 demonstrates. I have a lot of friends in Thanet and they feel they are on an island. I think it has some justification looking at the south where the Stour is still quite a divide, but a bit more dubious on this western side where the Wantsum is reduced, as I have said, to a ditch! 'An island' is an area of land 'totally' surrounded by water at all times. No part of Thanet gets to even a fraction of that essential truth and has not done so for many centuries, if ever? You friends must have very rich imaginations to see all that totally non-existant water? |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Apr 10, 2020 10:23:11 GMT
I have a lot of friends in Thanet and they feel they are on an island. I think it has some justification looking at the south where the Stour is still quite a divide, but a bit more dubious on this western side where the Wantsum is reduced, as I have said, to a ditch! 'An island' is an area of land 'totally' surrounded by water at all times. No part of Thanet gets to even a fraction of that essential truth and has not done so for many centuries, if ever? You friends must have very rich imaginations to see all that totally non-existant water? Wonder if they are the same people who only ever hear French being spoken in Canterbury? |
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 10, 2020 10:25:23 GMT
'An island' is an area of land 'totally' surrounded by water at all times. No part of Thanet gets to even a fraction of that essential truth and has not done so for many centuries, if ever? You friends must have very rich imaginations to see all that totally non-existant water? Wonder if they are the same people who only ever hear French being spoken in Canterbury? Exactly that sort of tosser. Birds of a yellow feather tend to flock together! |
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Post by yellowperil on Apr 10, 2020 10:26:30 GMT
I have a lot of friends in Thanet and they feel they are on an island. I think it has some justification looking at the south where the Stour is still quite a divide, but a bit more dubious on this western side where the Wantsum is reduced, as I have said, to a ditch! 'An island' is an area of land 'totally' surrounded by water at all times. No part of Thanet gets to even a fraction of that essential truth and has not done so for many centuries, if ever? You friends must have very rich imaginations to see all that totally non-existant water? It is still surrounded by water at all times, just not very much! "If ever" was a rather odd remark- I don't think there is any doubt that before the Wantsum silted up it was a major shipping channel, as was the Stour as far up as Fordwich, and the two connected. I would also point out the constituency name up to 1974 was "Isle of Thanet"! Could we have your views on a lot of other dubious "islands"? Purbeck? Portland? The Dogs? |
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Post by yellowperil on Apr 10, 2020 10:52:28 GMT
General Election 2019
30,066 62.4% Con (R.Gale)
12,877 26.7% Lab (C.Jones)
3,439 7.1% LD (A Curwen)
1,796 3.7% GP (R.Edwards)
General Election 2017
27,163 56.2% Con (R.Gale)
16,425 34.0% Lab (F.Rehal)
2,198 4.5% UKIP (C.Egan)
1,586 3.3% LD (M.Pennington)
825 1.7% GP (E.Targett)
128 0.3% CPA (I.White)
General Election 2015
23,045 49.0% Con (R.Gale)
12,097 25.7% UKIP (P.Wauchope)
8,411 17.9% Lab (F. Rehal)
1,719 3.7% GP (E.Targett)
1,645 3.55 LD (G.Cunningham)
General Election 2010
22, 826 52.7% Con (R.Gale)
9,298 21.5% Lab (M.Britton)
8,400 19.4% LD ( L.Murphy)
2,819 6.5% UKIP (R.Parker)
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Post by yellowperil on Apr 10, 2020 16:06:22 GMT
Wonder if they are the same people who only ever hear French being spoken in Canterbury? Exactly that sort of tosser. Birds of a yellow feather tend to flock together! I don't think you can assume my friends are necessarily of the yellow variety. Or birds! Incidentally , Carlton, I've thought of another dubious island to annoy you with, which I imagine you would once have known well: the Isle of Oxney is now of course a ward of Ashford borough. that's basically Wittersham to you and me. If I look out now from my balcony the Isle stands up on the distant skyline. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Apr 10, 2020 17:20:29 GMT
Exactly that sort of tosser. Birds of a yellow feather tend to flock together! I don't think you can assume my friends are necessarily of the yellow variety. Or birds! Incidentally , Carlton, I've thought of another dubious island to annoy you with, which I imagine you would once have known well: the Isle of Oxney is now of course a ward of Ashford borough. that's basically Wittersham to you and me. If I look out now from my balcony the Isle stands up on the distant skyline. Ynyslas. (Green/Blue Island) It isn't.  |
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 10, 2020 22:20:57 GMT
Exactly that sort of tosser. Birds of a yellow feather tend to flock together! I don't think you can assume my friends are necessarily of the yellow variety. Or birds! Incidentally , Carlton, I've thought of another dubious island to annoy you with, which I imagine you would once have known well: the Isle of Oxney is now of course a ward of Ashford borough. that's basically Wittersham to you and me. If I look out now from my balcony the Isle stands up on the distant skyline. Yes. I know the Isle of Oxney. The lovely cat weather vane for our much missed studio building at Wester Ross was made at the forge at Wittersham near the parish church where I was married many decades ago in another life and in another age. |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Apr 11, 2020 6:41:10 GMT
I don't think you can assume my friends are necessarily of the yellow variety. Or birds! Incidentally , Carlton, I've thought of another dubious island to annoy you with, which I imagine you would once have known well: the Isle of Oxney is now of course a ward of Ashford borough. that's basically Wittersham to you and me. If I look out now from my balcony the Isle stands up on the distant skyline. Yes. I know the Isle of Oxney. The lovely cat weather vane for our much missed studio building at Wester Ross was made at the forge at Wittersham near the parish church where I was married many decades ago in another life and in another age. I’ve been to the Isle of Oxney, but only just. The Ferry was part of one of my many pub crawls in the area- they varied but always took in the Red Lion in Snargate. |
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Post by yellowperil on Apr 11, 2020 8:03:22 GMT
That is a magnificent pub. I would love to go again later this year. I have also been to pubs in the Isle of Oxney. It features in the book Cricket's Strangest Matches; in the 1830s the landlord of the Norton Inn at Wittersham (I think) was so sick of the boasting of the captain of the local cricket team that he swore he could find two men to beat the lot of them. And he did, 2 professionals. And a century later a similar fixture took place, with one Kent all-rounder and one Sussex all-rounder beating the entire village XI. Hopefully a similar event will take place next decade. The Ferry is in the the parish of Stone in Oxney and definitely in the Isle of Oxney ward of Ashford Borough Council, but if Oxney was a proper island by Carlton definition the pub would actually be in the sea. AFAIK the only other pub on Oxney today is the Swan in the centre of Wittersham which I know fairly well. The only reference to the Norton Inn I can find takes us back to these two famous cricket matches. I have a vague memory when I knew Wittersham years ago there was another pub but however much I scratch my head I cannot recall more. Maybe by the sound of it carlton43 was more familiar with it than I was in those far off days? Today is just the day for a jaunt over to the Isle of Oxney and have a poke around...no, hang on, can't do. |
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Post by yellowperil on May 1, 2020 19:12:46 GMT
those extra stats..
Census 2011 Ethnicity
White 96.5% (SE 90.7.UK 87.2)
Asian 1.5% (SE 5.2, UK 6.9)
Mixed 1.3% (SE 1.9,UK 2.0)
Black 0.5% (SE 1.6, UK 3.0)
Other 0.2%(SE 0.6,UK 0.9)
2019 Employment
employees 55.0% (SE 66.7,GB 64.6)
self-employed 18.2% (SE 12.5,GB 10.9)
by occupation
Managerial, directors etc 18.4% (SE 13.3,GB 11.4)
Caring Leisure etc 16.9%(SE 8.7, GB 9.1)
Qualifications
NVQ4+ 25.2% (SE 43.4,GB 40.4)
Earnings
FT W£ 564.4 (SE 636.0.GB 587.0)
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Post by Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells on May 12, 2020 7:32:22 GMT
And all this 'on the island guff': What is that all about? It has no characteristics of being an island at all. It does not in any way feel like or look like an island or even a former island. No one feels they are on an island. Now the Black Isle in Ross does really feel like an island and has very poor land connections with major routes in and out clearly over water. The Isle of Axholme is lowly and in bad flood conditions can remind one of the reasons for the name. Thanet is a reasonable area describer name, but Isle of Thanet is just silly. This is a Conservative leaning area however one draws the boundaries and it is essentially quite a conservative populace getting more conservative over time. Minor parties can whip themselve into little fervours from time to time but usually dissipate potential in being divided between themselves. It takes one strong dominant challange at the moment of great weakness and unpopularity by the Conservatives for Thanet to be close to vulnerable; at which moment many constituencies are vulnerable as 1997 demonstrates. Out of interest,Carlton,does the Isle of Sheppey count? That is still clearly separated by water from the mainland,however it is well connected to Sittingbourne by road and rail bridge. |
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Post by carlton43 on May 12, 2020 9:57:35 GMT
And all this 'on the island guff': What is that all about? It has no characteristics of being an island at all. It does not in any way feel like or look like an island or even a former island. No one feels they are on an island. Now the Black Isle in Ross does really feel like an island and has very poor land connections with major routes in and out clearly over water. The Isle of Axholme is lowly and in bad flood conditions can remind one of the reasons for the name. Thanet is a reasonable area describer name, but Isle of Thanet is just silly. This is a Conservative leaning area however one draws the boundaries and it is essentially quite a conservative populace getting more conservative over time. Minor parties can whip themselve into little fervours from time to time but usually dissipate potential in being divided between themselves. It takes one strong dominant challange at the moment of great weakness and unpopularity by the Conservatives for Thanet to be close to vulnerable; at which moment many constituencies are vulnerable as 1997 demonstrates. Out of interest,Carlton,does the Isle of Sheppey count? That is still clearly separated by water from the mainland,however it is well connected to Sittingbourne by road and rail bridge. Yes, indeed it does have all the attributes of an island in that it is entirely surrounded by water and at all stages and conditions of the tides, and by a proper depth of water, and by salt water or 'sea'. There can be no doubt of it in any way. For me a connection by tunnel, bridge or causeway makes no difference to a description and a geographic actuality. 'In a state of nature' is it always surrounded completely by water? If it is it is an island. If it is not 'always' completely surrounded the definition is open to question and may not stand. It is as simple as that. I know Sheppey well from childhood and in the period 1950-70 from family visits, fishing, bird watching and a short term affair of the heart. I attended upon and helped an academic in his researches on the structure of the soils (much of it is layers of silts deposited by the River Rhine before Britain was separated from the mainland); I witnessed the final years of the Sheppey Light Railway under steam; and I accompanied the famous Mick Fisher (king of slots and bandits) in his Rolls Royce, touring his haunts on the island in search of 'operator fraud'! He had 'Joyce' in the boot as his 'persuader'! It was an American metal baseball bat. I know Sheppey. |
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