West of England

[mboy]

Nov 24, 2020 15:41:01 GMT Bert said:

Nov 24, 2020 15:22:11 GMT mboy said:

In the West of England the PCC also covers Somerset, so they cannot easily be merged...

Isn't there a LA reorganisation going on in Somerset ?

Yes there is (outcome currently unknown). I don't think anyone is suggesting breaking up Avon & Somerset police force though.

[Bert]

Nov 24, 2020 15:55:26 GMT mboy said:

Nov 24, 2020 15:41:01 GMT Bert said:

Isn't there a LA reorganisation going on in Somerset ?

Yes there is (outcome currently unknown). I don't think anyone is suggesting breaking up Avon & Somerset police force though.

I was thinking more of a combined authority coterminous with the Police &/or health.

[andrea]

Nov 24, 2020 14:24:02 GMT neilm said:

Nov 24, 2020 14:08:12 GMT Merseymike said:

Steve Rotheram isn't the PCC in Liverpool. There's definitely some needle between him and Anderson, mind...

I thought him and Burnham were both PCCs with the plan to give it to Dan Jarvis, Andy Street and whoever gets the West Yorkshire job. I didn't realise it was only Burnham (and obviously Sadiq Khan).

They have to solve the problem of Halton which is covered by Cheshire PCC and by Liverpool Metro Mayor.

[Chris from Brum]

Nov 24, 2020 16:04:27 GMT andrea said:

Nov 24, 2020 14:24:02 GMT neilm said:

I thought him and Burnham were both PCCs with the plan to give it to Dan Jarvis, Andy Street and whoever gets the West Yorkshire job. I didn't realise it was only Burnham (and obviously Sadiq Khan).

They have to solve the problem of Halton which is covered by Cheshire PCC and by Liverpool Metro Mayor.

An issue not present in the West Midlands (both posts cover the old Met County), so all the more mystifying why they were not combined.

[timrollpickering]

Nov 24, 2020 14:24:02 GMT neilm said:

Nov 24, 2020 14:08:12 GMT Merseymike said:

Steve Rotheram isn't the PCC in Liverpool. There's definitely some needle between him and Anderson, mind...

I thought him and Burnham were both PCCs with the plan to give it to Dan Jarvis, Andy Street and whoever gets the West Yorkshire job. I didn't realise it was only Burnham (and obviously Sadiq Khan).

A sign of the mess that is metro devolution. The Liverpool Echo ran this piece last month to explain it all:

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-city-region-merseyside-halton-19041897

At some point Westminster needs to bite the bullet and start rationalising metro models over the heads of councils whinging. At the moment we have different collections of powers, different combinations of elected posts and the old county mess to boot.

[ilerda]

A cynic could argue that the current mess of overlapping authorities and split functions suits Westminster rather well as it stops devolved leaders from forming too much of a rival power base.

That could be why Khan and Burnham have been more successful at grandstanding when arguing their region's case than Rotherham, Jarvis or whatever that guy in the North East is called.

[pl]

Nov 24, 2020 17:09:02 GMT ilerda said:

A cynic could argue that the current mess of overlapping authorities and split functions suits Westminster rather well as it stops devolved leaders from forming too much of a rival power base.

That could be why Khan and Burnham have been more successful at grandstanding when arguing their region's case than Rotherham, Jarvis or whatever that guy in the North East is called.

Khan and Burnham are both opposition politicians who had a national profile before being Mayor. They are also in first rank opposition-leaning cities. They are always going to have a higher profile, especially since they can complain about anything the government is doing. I do think creating these regional mayors is a strategic mistake by the Conservatives...

[Merseymike]

Nov 24, 2020 16:26:40 GMT timrollpickering said:

Nov 24, 2020 14:24:02 GMT neilm said:

I thought him and Burnham were both PCCs with the plan to give it to Dan Jarvis, Andy Street and whoever gets the West Yorkshire job. I didn't realise it was only Burnham (and obviously Sadiq Khan).

A sign of the mess that is metro devolution. The Liverpool Echo ran this piece last month to explain it all:

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-city-region-merseyside-halton-19041897

At some point Westminster needs to bite the bullet and start rationalising metro models over the heads of councils whinging. At the moment we have different collections of powers, different combinations of elected posts and the old county mess to boot.

Doesn't that describe the current patchwork quilt of arrangements for local government more generally?

[timrollpickering]

You might well think that; I couldn't possibly comment.

[heslingtonian]

Bowles may have suffered from the fact he was neither an established Westminster politician (Burnham, Jarvis, Rotherham etc) nor was he a successful CEO of a well known business (Street) nor was he a candidate with an interesting backstory (Rees, Houchen). I may be unfair but he appears to have been a very generic middle aged, white male Conservative who has avoided controversy but has not done anything remotely radical or visionary either. Nothing especially wrong with that but it doesn't tend to excite the media.

[ilerda]

Nov 24, 2020 17:27:46 GMT pl said:

Nov 24, 2020 17:09:02 GMT ilerda said:

A cynic could argue that the current mess of overlapping authorities and split functions suits Westminster rather well as it stops devolved leaders from forming too much of a rival power base.

That could be why Khan and Burnham have been more successful at grandstanding when arguing their region's case than Rotherham, Jarvis or whatever that guy in the North East is called.

Khan and Burnham are both opposition politicians who had a national profile before being Mayor. They are also in first rank opposition-leaning cities. They are always going to have a higher profile, especially since they can complain about anything the government is doing. I do think creating these regional mayors is a strategic mistake by the Conservatives...

I'm not saying there aren't some other factors at play, such as pre-existing profile (although I take issue with the suggestion that Liverpool and Sheffield aren't first rank cities).

I'm suggesting that the fact they lead more coherent and uniform devolved units makes it easier for them to build and show off their strength. I'd also put Andy Street in the same category, and although he's not a PCC he also leads a long-established geographic area with very little stakeholder overlap.

[timrollpickering]

The Conservative candidate is Samuel Williams:

[mboy]

He has been the Bristol mayor candidate for a couple of years. Bit weird to divert him to the metro mayor at the last minute. Obvs they now need a new mayor candidate.

[andrewp]

Dec 19, 2020 10:02:34 GMT mboy said:

He has been the Bristol mayor candidate for a couple of years. Bit weird to divert him to the metro mayor at the last minute. Obvs they now need a new mayor candidate.

Obviously a good move for him though-going from an election contest he won’t win to one that he probably will. It will be interesting to see whether someone else can give the job any more profile and purpose.

I think I’ve seen Tim Bowles on the Local news about twice in the last 4 years, where as Marvin Rees gets himself on it all the time. 

[European Lefty]

Dec 19, 2020 10:09:21 GMT andrewp said:

Dec 19, 2020 10:02:34 GMT mboy said:

He has been the Bristol mayor candidate for a couple of years. Bit weird to divert him to the metro mayor at the last minute. Obvs they now need a new mayor candidate.

Obviously a good move for him though-going from an election contest he won’t win to one that he probably will. It will be interesting to see whether someone else can give the job any more profile and purpose.

I think I’ve seen Tim Bowles on the Local news about twice in the last 4 years, where as Marvin Rees gets himself on it all the time. 

They won't. Not a slight on any of the candidates, but I simply don't think it's possible for this position. For one thing, whoever holds it will always be overshadowed by the mayor of Bristol, for another it's not a particularly natural region, even if it seems like an obvious one. And this region will always be a joke as long as North Somerset, and therefore Portishead and Weston are excluded

[john07]

Dec 20, 2020 0:11:17 GMT European Lefty said:

Dec 19, 2020 10:09:21 GMT andrewp said:

Obviously a good move for him though-going from an election contest he won’t win to one that he probably will. It will be interesting to see whether someone else can give the job any more profile and purpose.

I think I’ve seen Tim Bowles on the Local news about twice in the last 4 years, where as Marvin Rees gets himself on it all the time. 

They won't. Not a slight on any of the candidates, but I simply don't think it's possible for this position. For one thing, whoever holds it will always be overshadowed by the mayor of Bristol, for another it's not a particularly natural region, even if it seems like an obvious one. And this region will always be a joke as long as North Somerset, and therefore Portishead and Weston are excluded

Well obviously you could not have a mayor from the Bristol area if Weston is included.

It would have to be a super mayor!

[froome]

Dec 20, 2020 0:44:57 GMT john07 said:

Dec 20, 2020 0:11:17 GMT European Lefty said:

They won't. Not a slight on any of the candidates, but I simply don't think it's possible for this position. For one thing, whoever holds it will always be overshadowed by the mayor of Bristol, for another it's not a particularly natural region, even if it seems like an obvious one. And this region will always be a joke as long as North Somerset, and therefore Portishead and Weston are excluded

Well obviously you could not have a mayor from the Bristol area if Weston is included.

It would have to be a super mayor!

Not something that Bowles could be accused of being.

[Foggy]

Dec 20, 2020 0:11:17 GMT European Lefty said:

Dec 19, 2020 10:09:21 GMT andrewp said:

Obviously a good move for him though-going from an election contest he won’t win to one that he probably will. It will be interesting to see whether someone else can give the job any more profile and purpose.

I think I’ve seen Tim Bowles on the Local news about twice in the last 4 years, where as Marvin Rees gets himself on it all the time. 

They won't. Not a slight on any of the candidates, but I simply don't think it's possible for this position. For one thing, whoever holds it will always be overshadowed by the mayor of Bristol, for another it's not a particularly natural region, even if it seems like an obvious one. And this region will always be a joke as long as North Somerset, and therefore Portishead and Weston are excluded

Oh, but Weston is included.

[timrollpickering]

Another aspect where this metro mayor differs from others is that they don't have the power to set a mayoral precept on the council tax. The other (initial?) ones do though not all choose to exercise the power:

www.conservativehome.com/localgovernment/2018/01/ben-houchen-why-i-will-not-increase-the-council-tax-in-tees-valley.html

Metro Mayors are a new concept in English local government. With Tees Valley home to ceremonial mayors, parish mayors, and a directly-elected borough mayor, very few genuinely understand or appreciate what Metro Mayors do, and how we differ from other local political leaders. Indeed I spend half of my time trying to communicate what powers I do have, and those I don't. For me, I didn't want people's first interaction with my office to be a line on a bill demanding cash.