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Post by tiberius on Feb 12, 2020 1:39:56 GMT
North Dock and Mountjoy: North Dock B, North Dock C, North Dock A, Ballybough A, Mountjoy A, Mountjoy B, Ballybough B, North City
Inns Quay: Rotunda B, Rotunda A, Inns Quay A, Inns Quay B, Inns Quay C, Botanic C, Arran Quay A, Arran Quay B
Cabra and Arran Quay: Arran Quay C, Arran Quay E, Arran Quay D, Phoenix Park, Cabra West D, Cabra East C, Cabra West C, Cabra East B, Cabra West B
Finglas South: Ashtown B, Ashtown A, Cabra West A, Finglas South D, Finglas South C, Finglas South B, Finglas South A
Drumcondra: Cabra East A, Botanic A, Botanic B, Drumcondra South C, Drumcondra South A, Drumcondra South B, Clontarf West D, Clontarf West E
Ballygall and Finglas North: Finglas North A, Finglas North B, Finglas North C, Ballygall A, Ballygall D, Ballygall B, Ballymun F, Ballygall C, Ballymun E, Ballymun A
Whitehall and Ballymun: Ballymun B, Ballymun D, Ballymun C, Whitehall B, Whitehall A, Whitehall D
Clontarf: Clontarf West D, Clontarf West C, Grace Park, Clontarf East D, Clontarf East C, Clontarf West B, Clontarf East E, Clontarf West A
Beaumont: Beaumont E, Beaumont F, Beaumont B, Beaumont C, Beaumont A, Turnapin, Priorswood A, Priorswood E, Kilmore B, Kilmore C, Whitehall C
Priorswood: Priorswood D, Priorswood B, Priorswood C, Grange A, Ayrfield
Clontarf and Raheny: Clontarf East B, Clontarf East A, Raheny-St. Assam, Raheny-Foxfield, Raheny-Greendale, Grange C
Grange and Harmonstown: Edenmore, Harmonstown A, Harmonstown B, Clontarf West A, Grange D, Grange E, Beaumont D, Kilmore D
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Post by therealriga on Feb 12, 2020 10:39:43 GMT
therealriga I apologize for pinging you twice but I just want to notify you that Dun Laoghire is staying unchanged at 7. the arrangment you put forth is official, no ifs no buts. Sorry, as my user name may suggest, I'm two hours ahead of the UK and I had a date to keep with Mr. Pillow. Glad to receive the official stamp of approval. I've done Donegal's five, but will have to post it here later. Going to do Cavan and Monaghan after that. |
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Post by therealriga on Feb 12, 2020 14:45:44 GMT
Donegal's five virtually draw themselves. Inishowen rural area is a bit over, Stranolar is a bit under and can take the overspill from the former. You then can work from south to north.
INISHOWEN: Ardmalin, Ballyliffin, Birdstown, Buncrana Rural, Burt, Carndonagh, Carthage, Castlecary, Culdaff, Desertegny, Dunaff, Fahan, Glennagannon, Gleneely, Glentogher, Greencastle, Illies, Inch Island, Kilderry, Malin, Mintiaghs, Moville, Redcastle, Straid, Three Trees, Turmone, Whitecastle
DONEGAL EAST: Stranolar rural area; Manorcunningham, Newtowncunningham, Castleforward, Killea
DONEGAL SOUTH: Bundoran urban; Ballyshannon rural area; Donegal rural area; from Glenties rural area: Ard an Rátha, Cró Chaorach, Crownarad, Dawros, Gleann Cholm Cille, Gleann Gheis, Na Gleannta, An Ghrafaidh, Inis Caoil, Cill Charthaigh, Cill Ghabhlaigh, Killybegs, An Leargaidh Mhór, Maas, Málainn Bhig, Maol Mosóg, Tieveskeelta
DONEGAL NORTH WEST: rest of Glenties rural area; Dunfanaghy rural area; Milford rural area; from Letterkenny rural area: Mín an Lábáin, Gartán, Suí Corr
LETTERKENNY: Letterkenny town; rest of Letterkenny rural area
NW has just over 33k, the rest just over 31k
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Post by MeirionGwril on Feb 12, 2020 15:09:10 GMT
Allotment: Carlow (1) Cavan (3) Clare (4) Cork (18) Donegal (5) Dublin (45) Galway (9) Kerry (5) Kildare (8) Kilkenny (3) Laois (3) Leitrim (1) Limerick (7) Longford (1) Louth (4) Mayo (4) Meath (7) Monaghan (2) Offaly (3) Roscommon (2) Sligo (2) Tipperary (5) Waterford (4) Westmeath (3) Wexford (5) Wicklow (5) 29,762 per district What the hell is the point of this ...? |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT
Allotment: Carlow (1) Cavan (3) Clare (4) Cork (18) Donegal (5) Dublin (45) Galway (9) Kerry (5) Kildare (8) Kilkenny (3) Laois (3) Leitrim (1) Limerick (7) Longford (1) Louth (4) Mayo (4) Meath (7) Monaghan (2) Offaly (3) Roscommon (2) Sligo (2) Tipperary (5) Waterford (4) Westmeath (3) Wexford (5) Wicklow (5) 29,762 per district What the hell is the point of this ...? Stop dissing allotments you Corbyn-hater.  |
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edgbaston
Labour
Posts: 4,454
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Post by edgbaston on Feb 12, 2020 18:00:01 GMT
Allotment: Carlow (1) Cavan (3) Clare (4) Cork (18) Donegal (5) Dublin (45) Galway (9) Kerry (5) Kildare (8) Kilkenny (3) Laois (3) Leitrim (1) Limerick (7) Longford (1) Louth (4) Mayo (4) Meath (7) Monaghan (2) Offaly (3) Roscommon (2) Sligo (2) Tipperary (5) Waterford (4) Westmeath (3) Wexford (5) Wicklow (5) 29,762 per district What the hell is the point of this ...? You’re a member of Plaid, seriously? |
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Post by therealriga on Feb 12, 2020 18:46:57 GMT
Cavan. I remain sceptical that they'd give it three on a quota of 2.56. A pairing with Monaghan (2.06) is more likely. But, let's roll with it. For council elections, Cavan is divided into 3 electoral areas of roughly equal size, so just use those. The boundaries are at page 28 of this pdf: www.boundarycommittee.ie/reports/Local%20Electoral%20Area%20Boundary%20Committee%20No.1%20Report%20-%202018.pdfFor national elections, they seem to prefer County-compass point. So, Cavan-Belturbet = CAVAN NORTH WEST Bailieborough-Cootehill = CAVAN NORTH EAST Ballyjamesduff = CAVAN SOUTH |
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Post by therealriga on Feb 12, 2020 19:03:55 GMT
Similar to above, Offaly has three districts for local elections and those can be used as the basis for three smallish constituencies, though with a tweak for equalisation.
OFFALY EAST: Edenderry LEA (23326), plus, from Tullamore LEA: Cappancur, Killeigh, Tinnycross (3197)
TULLAMORE: Tullamore LEA minus the three above
OFFALY WEST: Birr LEA
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Feb 13, 2020 9:26:21 GMT
It would be more useful to ignore the provinces, leave Monaghan and Westmeath alone, and pair Cavan and Longford.
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Post by therealriga on Feb 13, 2020 17:27:22 GMT
It would be more useful to ignore the provinces, leave Monaghan and Westmeath alone, and pair Cavan and Longford. Well spotted. Provincial boundaries are already crossed and in this case it solves the problem nicely: Cavan (2.56) and Longford (1.37) for four. Again, using this as a base www.boundarycommittee.ie/reports/Local%20Electoral%20Area%20Boundary%20Committee%20No.1%20Report%20-%202018.pdfCAVAN NORTH WEST: all of Cavan-Belturbet LEA; from Bailieborough LEA: Ballyhaise, Clonervy, Drumcarn, Redhill CAVAN EAST: rest of Bailieborough; from Ballyjamesduff LEA: Crossbane, Lurgan, Mullagh, Virginia GOWNA***: rest of Ballyjamesduff LEA in Cavan; all of Granard LEA in Longford LONGFORD SOUTH: Longford LEA, Ballymahon LEA ***I was trying to avoid "Cavan South and Longford North", so named it after the lake on the county border. Alternatives include: Ballyjamesduff and Granard / Cavan South and Granard / Longford North and Ballyjamesduff |
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Post by therealriga on Feb 13, 2020 18:19:39 GMT
Louth. This is a total mess. Ireland's electoral divisions seem to have existed forever. Not changing them is in most cases fine and makes it easy to track population movements, but you need some flexibility for new housing developments etc. Dundalk is a classic example of this. No doubt when they were drawn, Dundalk town was contained in the 4 "Dundalk urban" electoral divisions, with the rural hinterland in "Dundalk rural." Things have changed since then. Dundalk rural now contains over half the town and has a population of 19k, while the 4 urban electoral divisions have a population of just over 10k. You'd probably have to split the town but I didn't have the figures so kept it in one seat, with another seat snaking round it awkwardly.
DUNDALK: Dundalk rural, Dundalk urban 1-4, Castletown part urban (2685 people) = 32874
LOUTH NORTH: the rest of Dundalk-Carlingford and Dundalk-south LEAs; from Ardee LEA: Castlebellingham, Darver, Killanny, Louth, Mansfieldstown, Strabannan, Tallanstown = 32256
DROGHEDA: Drogheda urban LEA; 2000 people from the part of St Peters in Drogheda rural LEA = 31471
LOUTH SOUTH: the rest of Ardee and Drogheda rural LEAs = 31774
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obsie
Non-Aligned
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Post by obsie on Feb 14, 2020 1:59:57 GMT
Louth. This is a total mess. Ireland's electoral divisions seem to have existed forever. Not changing them is in most cases fine and makes it easy to track population movements, but you need some flexibility for new housing developments etc. Dundalk is a classic example of this. No doubt when they were drawn, Dundalk town was contained in the 4 "Dundalk urban" electoral divisions, with the rural hinterland in "Dundalk rural." Things have changed since then. Dundalk rural now contains over half the town and has a population of 19k, while the 4 urban electoral divisions have a population of just over 10k. You'd probably have to split the town but I didn't have the figures so kept it in one seat, with another seat snaking round it awkwardly. DUNDALK: Dundalk rural, Dundalk urban 1-4, Castletown part urban (2685 people) = 32874 LOUTH NORTH: the rest of Dundalk-Carlingford and Dundalk-south LEAs; from Ardee LEA: Castlebellingham, Darver, Killanny, Louth, Mansfieldstown, Strabannan, Tallanstown = 32256 DROGHEDA: Drogheda urban LEA; 2000 people from the part of St Peters in Drogheda rural LEA = 31471 LOUTH SOUTH: the rest of Ardee and Drogheda rural LEAs = 31774
Basically I'd go with the old Dundalk and Drogheda council areas as constituencies with the more rural end of the county split north south along the Glyde but with the border dipping south to keep Castlebellingham and Kilsaran together:
Populations:
Dundalk/Dún Dealgán: 32,288 Drogheda/Droichead Átha: 31,785 North Louth/Tuaisceart Lú: 32,223 South Louth/Deisceart Lú: 32,079
In reality single-seaters would almost certainly be elected using AV rather than FPTP (particularly given the incentive of SF's recent sudden though not yet permanent rise) and there would be enough pitchfork-waving for county boundaries to be sacrosanct with an incentive to minimize variance within rather than between counties.
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obsie
Non-Aligned
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Post by obsie on Feb 14, 2020 2:55:53 GMT
It would be more useful to ignore the provinces, leave Monaghan and Westmeath alone, and pair Cavan and Longford. Well spotted. Provincial boundaries are already crossed and in this case it solves the problem nicely: Cavan (2.56) and Longford (1.37) for four. Again, using this as a base www.boundarycommittee.ie/reports/Local%20Electoral%20Area%20Boundary%20Committee%20No.1%20Report%20-%202018.pdfCAVAN NORTH WEST: all of Cavan-Belturbet LEA; from Bailieborough LEA: Ballyhaise, Clonervy, Drumcarn, Redhill CAVAN EAST: rest of Bailieborough; from Ballyjamesduff LEA: Crossbane, Lurgan, Mullagh, Virginia GOWNA***: rest of Ballyjamesduff LEA in Cavan; all of Granard LEA in Longford LONGFORD SOUTH: Longford LEA, Ballymahon LEA ***I was trying to avoid "Cavan South and Longford North", so named it after the lake on the county border. Alternatives include: Ballyjamesduff and Granard / Cavan South and Granard / Longford North and Ballyjamesduff Gowna is also the name of a village just on the Cavan side of the border (or at least it has been since it officially petitioned in the 1950s to have its name changed from Scrabby, principally due to snobbery in the view of its immediate neighbours - but we'll leave our little local difficulties aside). As I've said, I've assumed that in drawing single-seater boundaries, it's going to be more trouble than it's worth to break county boundaries and so Cavan gets three seats and Longford - only just - two. I've trimmed the Ballyjamesduff LEA, which takes in longer-scale Dublin commuter territory in its east at Virginia and Mullagh, a little by transferring Crosskeys (there was an entirely partisan-while-pretending-not-to-be proposal to the boundary commission to remove Crossbane instead which happened to form part of the base of the strongest local FF councillor). In Longford, the traditional division was north-south along the Sligo-Dublin road but the growth in population in Longford town means that no longer produces an even split, so I extended the northern half southward along the N55 and divided Caldragh ED so as not to have to split either Longford town or Newtownforbes immediately to its north. The NE/SW configuration makes for better transport links within the constituencies than any NW/SE alternative. Politically, SW Longford would have been FF on Saturday and NE Longford FG (in large part due to the Longford FG candidate being a local).
Populations: East Cavan/Oirthear an Chabháin: 25,108 South Cavan/Deisceart an Chabháin: 25,087 West Cavan/Iarthar an Chabháin: 25,897 North East Longford/Oirthuaisceart an Longfoirt: 20,304 South West Longford/Iardheisceart an Longfoirt: 20,506
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Post by therealriga on Feb 14, 2020 9:01:43 GMT
In reality single-seaters would almost certainly be elected using AV rather than FPTP (particularly given the incentive of SF's recent sudden though not yet permanent rise) and there would be enough pitchfork-waving for county boundaries to be sacrosanct with an incentive to minimize variance within rather than between counties.
As I've said, I've assumed that in drawing single-seater boundaries, it's going to be more trouble than it's worth to break county boundaries and so Cavan gets three seats and Longford - only just - two.
I strongly disagree with this approach because: 1) crossing county boundaries has always been a feature and would remain so 2) the proposed third amendment of 1968 would have allowed deviations of one sixth (16.66%) from the quota. This was rejected by over 60% of voters. There was concern by urban voters that this would favour rural areas. 2) when FF proposed allowing deviations of up to 25% in 1959, this was thrown out by the courts in O'Donovan v. Attorney-General . The courts in that case recommended no more than 5% deviation. Now granted, 1959 and 1968 are a long time ago, but I think the court case would still stand and would need a referendum to overturn it and a yes vote in such a referendum would be unlikely to be forthcoming for similar reasons to 1968 and there are even more urban voters now than then. I also think there would be even more pitchforks if people saw a neighbouring county getting significant over-representation. I think I'm already pushing it by going to 12.5%. A deviation of 32% in the case of small Longford constituencies wouldn't happen and would require cutting a seat elsewhere. Accordingly, I think the cross-county Cavan-Longford seat would be needed. |
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obsie
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Post by obsie on Feb 14, 2020 19:08:12 GMT
Any change at all will require a referendum of course but the 1968 attempt also included "accessibility" and "extent" as criteria, which were viewed as an attempt to introduce positive weighting for FF-friendly rural Western constituencies. With a single national divisor and harmonic mean the outliers on either side will be smaller counties (Kilkenny, Mayo, Sligo in this scheme on one side and Longford, Cavan and Offaly on the other) but it will be mathematically determined.
But the biggest furores under recent redistributions have always been of fragments of counties or counties being split (west Cavan, far north Tipperary, north Leitrim, east Kildare).
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Post by tiberius on Feb 15, 2020 3:13:43 GMT
Louth. This is a total mess. Ireland's electoral divisions seem to have existed forever. Not changing them is in most cases fine and makes it easy to track population movements, but you need some flexibility for new housing developments etc. Dundalk is a classic example of this. No doubt when they were drawn, Dundalk town was contained in the 4 "Dundalk urban" electoral divisions, with the rural hinterland in "Dundalk rural." Things have changed since then. Dundalk rural now contains over half the town and has a population of 19k, while the 4 urban electoral divisions have a population of just over 10k. You'd probably have to split the town but I didn't have the figures so kept it in one seat, with another seat snaking round it awkwardly. DUNDALK: Dundalk rural, Dundalk urban 1-4, Castletown part urban (2685 people) = 32874 LOUTH NORTH: the rest of Dundalk-Carlingford and Dundalk-south LEAs; from Ardee LEA: Castlebellingham, Darver, Killanny, Louth, Mansfieldstown, Strabannan, Tallanstown = 32256 DROGHEDA: Drogheda urban LEA; 2000 people from the part of St Peters in Drogheda rural LEA = 31471 LOUTH SOUTH: the rest of Ardee and Drogheda rural LEAs = 31774
Basically I'd go with the old Dundalk and Drogheda council areas as constituencies with the more rural end of the county split north south along the Glyde but with the border dipping south to keep Castlebellingham and Kilsaran together:
Populations:
Dundalk/Dún Dealgán: 32,288 Drogheda/Droichead Átha: 31,785 North Louth/Tuaisceart Lú: 32,223 South Louth/Deisceart Lú: 32,079
In reality single-seaters would almost certainly be elected using AV rather than FPTP (particularly given the incentive of SF's recent sudden though not yet permanent rise) and there would be enough pitchfork-waving for county boundaries to be sacrosanct with an incentive to minimize variance within rather than between counties.
These Louth districts are official. |
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obsie
Non-Aligned
Posts: 866
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Post by obsie on Feb 15, 2020 5:26:22 GMT
Basically I'd go with the old Dundalk and Drogheda council areas as constituencies with the more rural end of the county split north south along the Glyde but with the border dipping south to keep Castlebellingham and Kilsaran together:
Populations:
Dundalk/Dún Dealgán: 32,288 Drogheda/Droichead Átha: 31,785 North Louth/Tuaisceart Lú: 32,223 South Louth/Deisceart Lú: 32,079
In reality single-seaters would almost certainly be elected using AV rather than FPTP (particularly given the incentive of SF's recent sudden though not yet permanent rise) and there would be enough pitchfork-waving for county boundaries to be sacrosanct with an incentive to minimize variance within rather than between counties.
These Louth districts are official. If you mean the municipal districts, they're defined but subject to revision every couple of years and routinely ignored when drawing Dáil constituencies. Essentially local area committees given a new title. |
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Post by tiberius on Feb 15, 2020 5:47:04 GMT
These Louth districts are official. If you mean the municipal districts, they're defined but subject to revision every couple of years and routinely ignored when drawing Dáil constituencies. Essentially local area committees given a new title. I meant the constituencies you did - I was referring to them as districts in this case. Apologies for not being sufficiently clear. |
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Post by tiberius on Feb 15, 2020 6:19:05 GMT
The Cavan seats you did are also official.
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Post by tiberius on Feb 15, 2020 6:39:47 GMT
 54/160 seats done thus far. one-third the way through. |
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