john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 14,525
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Post by john07 on May 30, 2021 0:18:06 GMT
I guess it's still possible for a former member of the House of Lords who has lost his seat in this way is still eligible to be appointed again? No. House of Lords Reform Act 2014, s. 4(8) provides that "a person who ceases to be a member of the House of Lords in accordance with this Act may not subsequently become a member of that House." Lord Hailsham certainly got away with it in the past?
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Post by greatkingrat on May 30, 2021 0:34:48 GMT
No. House of Lords Reform Act 2014, s. 4(8) provides that "a person who ceases to be a member of the House of Lords in accordance with this Act may not subsequently become a member of that House." Lord Hailsham certainly got away with it in the past? Acts of Parliament generally do not apply to people who died over a decade before they were passed.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on May 30, 2021 0:39:52 GMT
No. House of Lords Reform Act 2014, s. 4(8) provides that "a person who ceases to be a member of the House of Lords in accordance with this Act may not subsequently become a member of that House." Lord Hailsham certainly got away with it in the past? If by Lord Hailsham you mean Quentin not Douglas Hogg, then no, as the former didn’t cease to be a member under the 2014 Act, largely because he died in 2001 having renounced his hereditary peerage under the Hereditary Peerages Act 1964.
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Post by johnloony on May 30, 2021 8:39:36 GMT
No. House of Lords Reform Act 2014, s. 4(8) provides that "a person who ceases to be a member of the House of Lords in accordance with this Act may not subsequently become a member of that House." Lord Hailsham certainly got away with it in the past? Eh? Lord Hailsham renounced his hereditary peerage, and then got a life peerage. Nothing to do with retiring or being unseated due to non-attendance.
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Post by gibbon on May 30, 2021 10:37:10 GMT
Lord Hailsham wanted to be the Prime Minister when Harold McMillan resigned and said he would renounce his peerage. Subsequently a by-election occurred in the Cities of London and Westminster and he was elected. To the annoyance of the electorate when he became Lord Chancellor in 1970 they had to have another by-election.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on May 30, 2021 10:40:10 GMT
Lord Hailsham wanted to be the Prime Minister when Harold McMillan resigned and said he would renounce his peerage. Subsequently a by-election occurred in the Cities of London and Westminster and he was elected. To the annoyance of the electorate when he became Lord Chancellor in 1970 they had to have another by-election. St Marylebone
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on May 30, 2021 10:58:19 GMT
Lord Hailsham wanted to be the Prime Minister when Harold McMillan resigned and said he would renounce his peerage. Subsequently a by-election occurred in the Cities of London and Westminster and he was elected. To the annoyance of the electorate when he became Lord Chancellor in 1970 they had to have another by-election. St Marylebone Hence his Life Peerage being Baron Hailsham of St Marylebone. Cities of London and Westminster’s by-election was in 1965 upon the death of The Speaker, Sir Harry Hylton-Foster.
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on May 30, 2021 11:11:40 GMT
Lord Hailsham certainly got away with it in the past? If by Lord Hailsham you mean Quentin not Douglas Hogg, then no, as the former didn’t cease to be a member under the 2014 Act, largely because he died in 2001 having renounced his hereditary peerage under the Hereditary Peerages Act 1964. On a point of sheer pedantry, the dreadful act (one would have thought back then, enough of them would have had enough of an education to know who Clodius was) you mean is in fact the Peerage Act, 1963.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on May 30, 2021 11:15:12 GMT
If by Lord Hailsham you mean Quentin not Douglas Hogg, then no, as the former didn’t cease to be a member under the 2014 Act, largely because he died in 2001 having renounced his hereditary peerage under the Hereditary Peerages Act 1964. On a point of sheer pedantry, the dreadful act (one would have thought back then, enough of them would have had enough of an education to know who Clodius was) you mean is in fact the Peerage Act, 1963. I’ll take your word for it as I was either -1 or -2, but Hailsham’s Wikipedia page says 1964 (presuming nobody’s edited it since last night).
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on May 30, 2021 11:58:26 GMT
Lord Hailsham wanted to be the Prime Minister when Harold McMillan resigned and said he would renounce his peerage. Subsequently a by-election occurred in the Cities of London and Westminster and he was elected. To the annoyance of the electorate when he became Lord Chancellor in 1970 they had to have another by-election. St Marylebone This was an arrangement. Hogg's namesake grandfather had founded the Polytechnic in St Marylebone, and his father had previously been MP for the seat in 1922-28. St Marylebone was then held by Sir Wavell Wakefield but after Hogg disclaimed his Peerage, Wakefield was made a life peer so that Hogg could take his seat and stay in Parliament. Hailsham retained his office as Lord President of the Council in the Douglas-Home government.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Jul 6, 2021 13:21:46 GMT
There were a series of Hereditary Peer by-elections held recently. Amongst Crossbench Peers following the retirement of the Countess of Mar, Lord Londesborough was the successful candidate (https://www.parliament.uk/contentassets/89574e5a22664ce6b21bd10898717cdc/hereditary-peers-by-election-result-mar.pdf).
There were three vacancies amongst excepted Conservatives following the retirements of the Earl of Selborne and Lord Denham, and the disqualification through non attendance of Lord Selsdon. The three candidates elected were Lord Sandhurst, the Earl of Leicester and Lord Altrincham (https://www.parliament.uk/contentassets/89574e5a22664ce6b21bd10898717cdc/hereditary-peers-by-election-result-selborne-et-al.pdf).
Following the death of Labour Hereditary Lord Rea last year a by-election will be held amongst the three Labour Hereditaries on 12 July, and a Benn would appear to be back in the Lords, as Tony’s son, Stephen, Viscount Stansgate, is the only candidate (https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/lords-communications/by-elections/notice-with-candidates-list-rea.pdf).
Following the retirement of Lord Elton a by-election amongst all the Excepted Hereditaries will take place on 13 and 14 July. The candidates are: List of candidates the Earl of Carnarvon, the Earl De La Warr, Lord De Ramsey, Lord Dormer, Lord Elibank, Lord Harlech, the Earl of Limerick, (Lord Foxford) Lord Margadale, Viscount Mountgarret, V. (L. Mountgarret), Lord Napier and Ettrick, the Earl of Stockton, Lord Strathcarron, and Lord Windlesham (https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/lords-communications/by-elections/notice-with-candidates-list-elton.pdf?shiftFileName=Arrangements-by-election-11-03-19.pdf&shiftSavePath=/documents/lords-information-office/2019). All these candidates were unsuccessful in the Conservative by-election mentioned above.
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Post by michael2019 on Jul 6, 2021 13:36:47 GMT
There were a series of Hereditary Peer by-elections held recently. Amongst Crossbench Peers following the retirement of the Countess of Mar, Lord Londesborough was the successful candidate (https://www.parliament.uk/contentassets/89574e5a22664ce6b21bd10898717cdc/hereditary-peers-by-election-result-mar.pdf). There were three vacancies amongst excepted Conservatives following the retirements of the Earl of Selborne and Lord Denham, and the disqualification through non attendance of Lord Selsdon. The three candidates elected were Lord Sandhurst, the Earl of Leicester and Lord Altrincham (https://www.parliament.uk/contentassets/89574e5a22664ce6b21bd10898717cdc/hereditary-peers-by-election-result-selborne-et-al.pdf). Following the death of Labour Hereditary Lord Rea last year a by-election will be held amongst the three Labour Hereditaries on 12 July, and a Benn would appear to be back in the Lords, as Tony’s son, Stephen, Viscount Stansgate, is the only candidate (https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/lords-communications/by-elections/notice-with-candidates-list-rea.pdf). Following the retirement of Lord Elton a by-election amongst all the Excepted Hereditaries will take place on 13 and 14 July. The candidates are: List of candidates the Earl of Carnarvon, the Earl De La Warr, Lord De Ramsey, Lord Dormer, Lord Elibank, Lord Harlech, the Earl of Limerick, (Lord Foxford) Lord Margadale, Viscount Mountgarret, V. (L. Mountgarret), Lord Napier and Ettrick, the Earl of Stockton, Lord Strathcarron, and Lord Windlesham (https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/lords-communications/by-elections/notice-with-candidates-list-elton.pdf?shiftFileName=Arrangements-by-election-11-03-19.pdf&shiftSavePath=/documents/lords-information-office/2019). All these candidates were unsuccessful in the Conservative by-election mentioned above. On the mention of a Benn - I was looking following the dream team cabinet thread how many Grandfathers, fathers and sons have been cabinet ministers. From memory and following some research a few days ago - obviously the Benns, there were also three Pitts, the (Spencer-)Churchills which was actually four generations up to Winston I believe and the Hoggs/Lord Hailshams. I can't immediately think of any more - can any one think of any others?
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Post by matureleft on Jul 6, 2021 14:08:31 GMT
There were a series of Hereditary Peer by-elections held recently. Amongst Crossbench Peers following the retirement of the Countess of Mar, Lord Londesborough was the successful candidate (https://www.parliament.uk/contentassets/89574e5a22664ce6b21bd10898717cdc/hereditary-peers-by-election-result-mar.pdf). There were three vacancies amongst excepted Conservatives following the retirements of the Earl of Selborne and Lord Denham, and the disqualification through non attendance of Lord Selsdon. The three candidates elected were Lord Sandhurst, the Earl of Leicester and Lord Altrincham (https://www.parliament.uk/contentassets/89574e5a22664ce6b21bd10898717cdc/hereditary-peers-by-election-result-selborne-et-al.pdf). Following the death of Labour Hereditary Lord Rea last year a by-election will be held amongst the three Labour Hereditaries on 12 July, and a Benn would appear to be back in the Lords, as Tony’s son, Stephen, Viscount Stansgate, is the only candidate (https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/lords-communications/by-elections/notice-with-candidates-list-rea.pdf). Following the retirement of Lord Elton a by-election amongst all the Excepted Hereditaries will take place on 13 and 14 July. The candidates are: List of candidates the Earl of Carnarvon, the Earl De La Warr, Lord De Ramsey, Lord Dormer, Lord Elibank, Lord Harlech, the Earl of Limerick, (Lord Foxford) Lord Margadale, Viscount Mountgarret, V. (L. Mountgarret), Lord Napier and Ettrick, the Earl of Stockton, Lord Strathcarron, and Lord Windlesham (https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/lords-communications/by-elections/notice-with-candidates-list-elton.pdf?shiftFileName=Arrangements-by-election-11-03-19.pdf&shiftSavePath=/documents/lords-information-office/2019). All these candidates were unsuccessful in the Conservative by-election mentioned above. On the mention of a Benn - I was looking following the dream team cabinet thread how many Grandfathers, fathers and sons have been cabinet ministers. From memory and following some research a few days ago - obviously the Benns, there were also three Pitts, the (Spencer-)Churchills which was actually four generations up to Winston I believe and the Hoggs/Lord Hailshams. I can't immediately think of any more - can any one think of any others? The Salisburys through the 19th and first half of the 20th century. I think 4 successive generations made it to the Cabinet (and, of course, one extremely important prime minister, still lauded by many Tories). One generation was skipped (the very conservative 6th Marquess, though he was an MP). Then his son made it into Cabinet and is still around.
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timmullen1
Labour
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Post by timmullen1 on Jul 6, 2021 14:21:14 GMT
On the mention of a Benn - I was looking following the dream team cabinet thread how many Grandfathers, fathers and sons have been cabinet ministers. From memory and following some research a few days ago - obviously the Benns, there were also three Pitts, the (Spencer-)Churchills which was actually four generations up to Winston I believe and the Hoggs/Lord Hailshams. I can't immediately think of any more - can any one think of any others? The Salisburys through the 19th and first half of the 20th century. I think 4 successive generations made it to the Cabinet (and, of course, one extremely important prime minister, still lauded by many Tories). One generation was skipped (the very conservative 6th Marquess, though he was an MP). Then his son made it into Cabinet and is still around. Quite recently, John Gummer’s son, Ben, was the youngest member of Theresa May’s Cabinet.
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Post by michael2019 on Jul 6, 2021 15:25:01 GMT
On the mention of a Benn - I was looking following the dream team cabinet thread how many Grandfathers, fathers and sons have been cabinet ministers. From memory and following some research a few days ago - obviously the Benns, there were also three Pitts, the (Spencer-)Churchills which was actually four generations up to Winston I believe and the Hoggs/Lord Hailshams. I can't immediately think of any more - can any one think of any others? The Salisburys through the 19th and first half of the 20th century. I think 4 successive generations made it to the Cabinet (and, of course, one extremely important prime minister, still lauded by many Tories). One generation was skipped (the very conservative 6th Marquess, though he was an MP). Then his son made it into Cabinet and is still around. Excellent knowledge!!!!!! Looking on Wikipedia the 3rd, (the PM), 4th, 5th Marquesses were as you say cabinet ministers. As were the 1st and 2nd. And as you say the 7th - Lord Cranborne - as he was known as Lord Cranborne when in the Lords (as a hereditary - he subsequently got a life peerage as a former leader of the Lords) I didn't realise he was also the Marquess of Salisbury. Only the 6th didn't make it! The 2nd Marquess was also the grandfather of the Prime Minister Arthur Balfour - his daughter was Balfour's mother - so not an absolute direct line and neither of his parents were cabinet ministers. Thus, the 2nd Marquess's son the 3rd Marquess was followed as PM by his grandson Arthur Balfour. And Arthur's brother Gerald Balfour served in Arthur's cabinet. (I could only think of the Milibands as siblings who had served in the same cabinet and/or been cabinet ministers). And indeed Gerald was succeeded as President of the Board of Trade by another grandson of the 2nd Marquess - the 4th Marquess!
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timmullen1
Labour
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Post by timmullen1 on Jul 6, 2021 16:25:47 GMT
On the mention of a Benn - I was looking following the dream team cabinet thread how many Grandfathers, fathers and sons have been cabinet ministers. From memory and following some research a few days ago - obviously the Benns, there were also three Pitts, the (Spencer-)Churchills which was actually four generations up to Winston I believe and the Hoggs/Lord Hailshams. I can't immediately think of any more - can any one think of any others? All of them were you prat. Perhaps some Key Stage 1 comprehension lessons might help you Carlton, as clearly Michael’s post was beyond your ability levels.
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Post by johnloony on Jul 6, 2021 18:21:12 GMT
On the mention of a Benn - I was looking following the dream team cabinet thread how many Grandfathers, fathers and sons have been cabinet ministers. From memory and following some research a few days ago - obviously the Benns, there were also three Pitts, the (Spencer-)Churchills which was actually four generations up to Winston I believe and the Hoggs/Lord Hailshams. I can't immediately think of any more - can any one think of any others? All of them were you prat. All of whom were what?
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Post by greatkingrat on Jul 6, 2021 18:24:06 GMT
Presumably carlton43 was making the point that every cabinet minister is someone's son (at least the male ones), and most of them will be fathers as well.
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Jul 6, 2021 19:33:29 GMT
The Salisburys through the 19th and first half of the 20th century. I think 4 successive generations made it to the Cabinet (and, of course, one extremely important prime minister, still lauded by many Tories). One generation was skipped (the very conservative 6th Marquess, though he was an MP). Then his son made it into Cabinet and is still around. Quite recently, John Gummer’s son, Ben, was the youngest member of Theresa May’s Cabinet. The Gummer child not fed burgers as a stunt
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CatholicLeft
Labour
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Post by CatholicLeft on Jul 6, 2021 22:20:06 GMT
The Cecil family have been running the country since the end of the sixteenth century. Indeed, the ludicrous hereditary peers byelection system is a by-product of the present Marquess of Salisbury's machinations to protect an hereditary presence in the House of Lords.
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