Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group" - Douglas Adams
Posts: 4,953
|
Post by Chris from Brum on Aug 8, 2020 13:19:27 GMT
Prize for anyone that can identify it without checking a map. (I couldn't.) Presumably the Rose Hill Marple branch, although there certainly used to be some Wigan-Stalybridge services which stayed entirely within the county. Stockport-Stalybridge 😉 |
|
unrepentantfool
Socialist
Politically homeless but not politically inactive :D
Posts: 902
|
Post by unrepentantfool on Aug 8, 2020 15:19:33 GMT
I'll remind you that most,if not all modern vaccines use inactivated or dead particles of the pathogen. The vaccine trials should not lead to anyone's death or serious illness.
True, assuming we get the science of it right; that the virus works the way medical scientists think it does.
Well,you have a fair point there because some cases of the common cold are caused by coronavirus, and we haven't been able to create a vaccine for that yet. |
|
unrepentantfool
Socialist
Politically homeless but not politically inactive :D
Posts: 902
|
Post by unrepentantfool on Aug 8, 2020 15:28:13 GMT
I'll remind you that most,if not all modern vaccines use inactivated or dead particles of the pathogen. The vaccine trials should not lead to anyone's death or serious illness. All medical trials involve some sort of risk (hopefully minimal, but risk nonetheless) of death or serious illness. If you haven't done a treatment before you won't precisely know whether it's safe or effective or what the side-effects are. Any ethical medical trial should make this clear to the patient or their parent/guardian before signing the patient up. You also neglect that some people involved in the COVID vaccine trials may well be given a placebo, or a vaccine thought to be less promising, which would provide uncertain or no protection against the virus whether live or deactivated; and some of the patients in the those groups will end up contracting the live virus while having uncertain or no protection from it. It sounds brutal, and it is, but measuring what happens to those patients versus what happens to the patients who received the trial vaccine is the best way to tell us how effective the trial vaccine is. In the case of COVID, for ethical reasons you can (and I assume most active trials have, although I haven't checked this) select the volunteers from groups which are known to be at lower risk of death or serious complication from the disease, but lower risk does not mean zero risk. It's more likely than not that some unlucky person will die on a COVID vaccine trial, having been told at the beginning that there was a possibility of this happening. If that happens, their death will tell us something and their sacrifice will not be in vain. If I was offered the chance to take part in a COVID vaccine trial, I would most likely say yes. That's a reasonable comment. There never can be no risk in a medical trial - that's correct, however steps should be taken by the researchers to ensure that this risk is kept to an absolute minimum e.g like the selection of the healthiest volunteers possible. The placebo will not protect them from Covid, but it shouldn't adversely affect them in any way. |
|
|
|
Post by andrewteale on Aug 8, 2020 16:00:54 GMT
All medical trials involve some sort of risk (hopefully minimal, but risk nonetheless) of death or serious illness. If you haven't done a treatment before you won't precisely know whether it's safe or effective or what the side-effects are. Any ethical medical trial should make this clear to the patient or their parent/guardian before signing the patient up. You also neglect that some people involved in the COVID vaccine trials may well be given a placebo, or a vaccine thought to be less promising, which would provide uncertain or no protection against the virus whether live or deactivated; and some of the patients in the those groups will end up contracting the live virus while having uncertain or no protection from it. It sounds brutal, and it is, but measuring what happens to those patients versus what happens to the patients who received the trial vaccine is the best way to tell us how effective the trial vaccine is. In the case of COVID, for ethical reasons you can (and I assume most active trials have, although I haven't checked this) select the volunteers from groups which are known to be at lower risk of death or serious complication from the disease, but lower risk does not mean zero risk. It's more likely than not that some unlucky person will die on a COVID vaccine trial, having been told at the beginning that there was a possibility of this happening. If that happens, their death will tell us something and their sacrifice will not be in vain. If I was offered the chance to take part in a COVID vaccine trial, I would most likely say yes. That's a reasonable comment. There never can be no risk in a medical trial - that's correct, however steps should be taken by the researchers to ensure that this risk is kept to an absolute minimum e.g like the selection of the healthiest volunteers possible. The placebo will not protect them from Covid, but it shouldn't adversely affect them in any way. Most medical trial volunteers tend to be people in their 20s, which helpfully is a very low-risk demographic for COVID. There are circumstances in which you would want to study how a vaccine or treatment works in people with certain specific health conditions, and if there any such trials in progress I'm sure the appropriate ethical considerations have been taken into account. The usual placebo in vaccine trials is a salt water solution with no active ingredients. Your liver and kidneys will scrub the excess salt out of the bloodstream very quickly. |
|
|
|
Post by owainsutton on Aug 8, 2020 16:35:39 GMT
Prize for anyone that can identify it without checking a map. (I couldn't.) Presumably the Rose Hill Marple branch, although there certainly used to be some Wigan-Stalybridge services which stayed entirely within the county. Yeah, Rose Hill is the terminus one. There's always going to be odd services tucked away especially late in the evening that are more about repositioning rolling stock than anything else. A quick check of today's timetables shows 2224 Wigan Wallgate - Victoria, and 2301 Airport - Piccadilly. |
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Aug 8, 2020 16:47:06 GMT
Presumably the Rose Hill Marple branch, although there certainly used to be some Wigan-Stalybridge services which stayed entirely within the county. Yeah, Rose Hill is the terminus one. There's always going to be odd services tucked away especially late in the evening that are more about repositioning rolling stock than anything else. A quick check of today's timetables shows 2224 Wigan Wallgate - Victoria, and 2301 Airport - Piccadilly. Now here's a question. Do airport trains technically cross into Cheshire, or is the junction within Greater Manchester? Appreciate the terminus is still in Greater Manchester. |
|
|
|
Post by owainsutton on Aug 8, 2020 16:52:02 GMT
Yeah, Rose Hill is the terminus one. There's always going to be odd services tucked away especially late in the evening that are more about repositioning rolling stock than anything else. A quick check of today's timetables shows 2224 Wigan Wallgate - Victoria, and 2301 Airport - Piccadilly. Now here's a question. Do airport trains technically cross into Cheshire, or is the junction within Greater Manchester? Appreciate the terminus is still in Greater Manchester. Very valid question! OpenStreetMap shows them staying inside, by about 60 metres. The border runs through the southern portion of the delta junction, so southbound departures from the airport do enter Cheshire before joining the main line. |
|
|
|
Post by andrewteale on Aug 8, 2020 16:56:43 GMT
Presumably the Rose Hill Marple branch, although there certainly used to be some Wigan-Stalybridge services which stayed entirely within the county. Yeah, Rose Hill is the terminus one. There's always going to be odd services tucked away especially late in the evening that are more about repositioning rolling stock than anything else. A quick check of today's timetables shows 2224 Wigan Wallgate - Victoria, and 2301 Airport - Piccadilly. There used to be a late Saturday evening train from Stockport to Wallgate which was the only Saturday evening train to stop at Moses Gate, so if I'd been quizzing down south I would often aim for it. It was an easy connection at Stockport unless Cross Country were running late, which they often were... |
|
neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 17,694
|
Post by neilm on Aug 8, 2020 17:07:31 GMT
Presumably the Rose Hill Marple branch, although there certainly used to be some Wigan-Stalybridge services which stayed entirely within the county. Yeah, Rose Hill is the terminus one. There's always going to be odd services tucked away especially late in the evening that are more about repositioning rolling stock than anything else. A quick check of today's timetables shows 2224 Wigan Wallgate - Victoria, and 2301 Airport - Piccadilly. You've given me an idea of what to do late one evening. I was actually looking for an excuse to tick Wigan off. |
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Aug 8, 2020 22:47:34 GMT
Now here's a question. Do airport trains technically cross into Cheshire, or is the junction within Greater Manchester? Appreciate the terminus is still in Greater Manchester. Very valid question! OpenStreetMap shows them staying inside, by about 60 metres. The border runs through the southern portion of the delta junction, so southbound departures from the airport do enter Cheshire before joining the main line. Given the awful buses, I have often thought that an Airport-Wilmslow-Cheadle Hulme-Stockport service would be a winner. |
|
|
|
Post by owainsutton on Aug 9, 2020 9:41:08 GMT
Very valid question! OpenStreetMap shows them staying inside, by about 60 metres. The border runs through the southern portion of the delta junction, so southbound departures from the airport do enter Cheshire before joining the main line. Given the awful buses, I have often thought that an Airport-Wilmslow-Cheadle Hulme-Stockport service would be a winner. That's all gonna come down to capacity at Stockport. The Chester-Manchester via Altrincham service never got increased to twice per hour, even though it was in the last franchise agreement, because Network Rail couldn't make it fit. |
|
|
|
Post by andrewteale on Aug 9, 2020 10:11:57 GMT
Given the awful buses, I have often thought that an Airport-Wilmslow-Cheadle Hulme-Stockport service would be a winner. That's all gonna come down to capacity at Stockport. The Chester-Manchester via Altrincham service never got increased to twice per hour, even though it was in the last franchise agreement, because Network Rail couldn't make it fit. Airport-Wilmslow-Cheadle Hulme-Stockport would require either a new chord line at Wilmslow or the train to stand on the main line south of Wilmslow for several minutes while the driver changes ends. The first option would cost megabucks, the second would not be the best use of the line that's already there. |
|
|
|
Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 9, 2020 11:54:01 GMT
That's all gonna come down to capacity at Stockport. The Chester-Manchester via Altrincham service never got increased to twice per hour, even though it was in the last franchise agreement, because Network Rail couldn't make it fit. Airport-Wilmslow-Cheadle Hulme-Stockport would require either a new chord line at Wilmslow or the train to stand on the main line south of Wilmslow for several minutes while the driver changes ends. The first option would cost megabucks, the second would not be the best use of the line that's already there. The Hon Member sets out the position. A chord would be impractical. Even a turnback south of the station would be difficult*. The 199 bus is presumably the best way of getting from Ringway to Stockport. EDIT. * There is, actually, a turnback siding# to allow Airport - Wilmslow - Stockport. However Stockport - Wilmslow - Airport looks a no chance unless you go to Alderley Edge to reverse. # And, of course, the turnback may well not be passed for passenger use. |
|
|
|
Post by bsjmcr on Oct 20, 2020 19:50:35 GMT
Very surprised that there isn't any discussion going on here, in light of current events, unless there's a dedicated thread to the situation in G.Manchester.
Or there is no discussion here because Burnham is guaranteed to win, but I'm wondering by how much more popular he will be for at least trying to get the best deal for the area. I have also seen some naysayers along the 'playing politics' line and the idea that the delaying of further restrictions has risked more lives in the process (hardly, given how incremental 'Tier 3' is, and how ineffective it is according to the scientists), but overall it appears to be positive for him, even if the £60m 'on the table' doesn't transpire, surely the blame should be on Gov't for failing to give it and not him.
Surely they can also kiss goodbye to most of the new 2019 GM Tories at the next general election, and I would like to say that Sir Graham Brady would also be on thin ice in Altrincham if it wasn't for his current principled stance siding with the Mayor, with a few others, Chris Green and William Wragg. My MP, Christian Wakeford, seems to be in between, rebelling against the Gov't on the vote on 10pm 'curfew' and critical of his 20 rural colleagues for writing a letter poking their nose in, but then his name appears on a different letter expressing dismay at Burnham for what is going on.
|
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 20, 2020 20:05:41 GMT
I think things depend on his next move. If he starts calling for a national lockdown again, I can see his support dissipating. And at a council level, Labour still have the problem of the spatial plan, and more parochially, things like the proposed bypass to be smashed through the Goyt Valley, which has been rearing its head again.
But broadly yes, he is going to sweep the election even more so than before. And the last fortnight will have completely erased the more bizarre behaviour he displayed earlier in the year.
|
|
alien8ted
Independent
I refuse to be governed by fear.
Posts: 3,715
|
Post by alien8ted on Oct 20, 2020 20:28:06 GMT
Have been out and about today, Andy Burnham seems to be leaving a very good impression with the general public in Sheffield. Not scientific sample so it might be more among sceptics, but maybe not, it's just from conversations I overheard.
He is seen as standing up for local people in the face of (choose from multiple words here inept, bullying, miserly......) central government, who have totally lost the peoples trust.
People will still 'do their part' for themselves and others but this now seems to me to be more despite central government's actions not because of them.
At worst Andy Burnham's call for national lockdown is seen a negotiating tactic not what he actually wants.
If this impression is replicated in Greater Manchester he is a shoe in to be reelected as Mayor.
|
|
neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 17,694
|
Post by neilm on Oct 20, 2020 20:52:01 GMT
Have been out and about today, Andy Burnham seems to be leaving a very good impression with the general public in Sheffield. Not scientific sample so it might be more among sceptics, but maybe not, it's just from conversations I overheard. He is seen as standing up for local people in the face of (choose from multiple words here inept, bullying, miserly......) central government, who have totally lost the peoples trust. People will still 'do their part' for themselves and others but this now seems to me to be more despite central government's actions not because of them. At worst Andy Burnham's call for national lockdown is seen a negotiating tactic not what he actually wants. If this impression is replicated in Greater Manchester he is a shoe in to be reelected as Mayor. It is replicated in Greater Manchester. Literally everyone I've spoken to today has said something positive about him. |
|
David
Scottish Conservative
Posts: 7,893 
|
Post by David on Oct 21, 2020 3:17:54 GMT
Tbh, if I were a Mancunian, I think even I would vote for Andy Burnham at this point. This is a government that spent 50 million quid on a ferry contract for ferries that didn't even exist. Yet it can't find an extra 5 mil for Manchester? Also, when London needed support I don't remember any haggling over the price, least of all over such an insignificant figure for the national government of a two trillion dollar economy. Absolutely outrageous.
|
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 21, 2020 14:18:12 GMT
Tbh, if I were a Mancunian, I think even I would vote for Andy Burnham at this point. This is a government that spent 50 million quid on a ferry contract for ferries that didn't even exist. Yet it can't find an extra 5 mil for Manchester? Also, when London needed support I don't remember any haggling over the price, least of all over such an insignificant figure for the national government of a two trillion dollar economy. Absolutely outrageous. Yep, fannying around over £5m has allowed him off the hook for everything else. They're bloody idiots. |
|
|
|
Post by bsjmcr on Oct 23, 2020 20:30:07 GMT
Not entirely related, but as he is from Manchester, Marcus Rashford really leading the way from the North and successfully exposing the 'nasty' side of the 'Nasty Party' (I won't name names but several clips of certain members have been circulating, and now Twitter screenshots). There must be many Conservatives out there (on top of the five rebels) who are united (no pun intended) in support for the initiative. Heck, even Nigel Farage has chimed in with his support, given the relatively small cost.
Many would even like to see him elected one day. I wouldn't be surprised if he lives in Tatton - him defeating McVey would be perfect. And they have displayed good sense in the past in electing Independent celebrity candidates (then they chose Osborne..., but funnily enough part of me misses him and I'm sure the stand-off with Burnham wouldn't have happened under his tenure - Northern Powerhouse and all that)
|
|
