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Post by islington on Jun 28, 2020 11:34:35 GMT
Cambridgeshire. This I feel is not too bad. SW Cambs (basically, the western part of S Cambs, plus St Neots) is the new seat.
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Post by islington on Jun 28, 2020 11:41:31 GMT
A lot of the Norfolk seats were within range so I left them alone as much as possible. I'm not sure what you'd call S Norfolk in this configuration: I might just ignore geography a la E Devon and NE Derbys and leave the name as it is.
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Post by islington on Jun 28, 2020 11:49:57 GMT
I approached this by adding territory (including Diss and surrounding bits of Norfolk) into the existing C Suffolk seat until everything else was within range and C Suffolk was big enough to be split in two. I propose the names of Stowmarket and (of course) Eye.
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Post by islington on Jun 28, 2020 12:03:40 GMT
And finally Essex. This was really tricky because almost all the seats have to be small. To make it more manageable I treated the four northern districts separately for 6 seats, leaving 13 for the rest of the county.
To my great frustration I couldn't find a way of keeping Basildon together. The Basildon N seat now includes Wickford, so Rayleigh (and adjacent areas) now has a seat to itself; the additional seat is Billericay, or I might call it Mid Essex in view of the enthusiasm of some forum members for this kind of name.
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 28, 2020 12:48:39 GMT
I rarely make it to Liverpool/Merseyside because I can never finish Lancashire properly with seats being too large or too small, I don't get the chance to look elsewhere. As it goes, this attempt at Liverpool had to grind to a halt because the cross-Mersey seat I suggested earlier appears to knock the meeting point of Liverpool/Knowsley/St Helens, all of which go over quota no matter what you do with them, All seats here have their current names except, of course, Wallasey and Kirkdale, and Liverpool West Derby and Broadgreen. Sadly everything then goes wrong so I've stopped but for reference.  I don't think you'll be able to draw seats in the rest of Wirral using whole wards now. I tried and I kept alternating between "need 15 more" and "must remove 12,000". |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 13:09:10 GMT
I don't think you'll be able to draw seats in the rest of Wirral using whole wards now. I tried and I kept alternating between "need 15 more" and "must remove 12,000". Did you see my follow up? I was the same, either 1,000 over or far too small. |
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pl
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Post by pl on Jun 28, 2020 13:11:25 GMT
I don't think you'll be able to draw seats in the rest of Wirral using whole wards now. I tried and I kept alternating between "need 15 more" and "must remove 12,000". Hopefully the March electorate numbers will fix that one! |
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bsjmcr
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Post by bsjmcr on Jun 28, 2020 13:32:29 GMT
Cambridgeshire. This I feel is not too bad. SW Cambs (basically, the western part of S Cambs, plus St Neots) is the new seat.
Pretty good, I think I've seen similar ideas on here previously, give or take a few wards. The rest of your South Cambs would be SE Cambs, I presume, and the one containing Ely, East Cambridgeshire? Huntingdon of course remains, and your NW Cambs is much more Peterborough-focussed - could it be Peterborough S/W, and the other Peterborough East? |
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Post by islington on Jun 28, 2020 14:10:39 GMT
Cambridgeshire. This I feel is not too bad. SW Cambs (basically, the western part of S Cambs, plus St Neots) is the new seat.
Pretty good, I think I've seen similar ideas on here previously, give or take a few wards. The rest of your South Cambs would be SE Cambs, I presume, and the one containing Ely, East Cambridgeshire? Huntingdon of course remains, and your NW Cambs is much more Peterborough-focussed - could it be Peterborough S/W, and the other Peterborough East? Thanks.
I was thinking more about the boundaries than the names, but I'd probably keep the names for the more-or-less corresponding seats where possible, including NW Cambs (note that Peterborough itself is unchanged). NE Cambs strikes me as a better name than 'Fenland' even though the seat now coincides exactly with the district. The one containing Ely I'd call exactly that. The more easterly S Cambs seat could be SE Cambs as you suggest, although sticking to S Cambs wouldn't be totally unreasonable.
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Post by pepperminttea on Jun 28, 2020 14:21:42 GMT
Right, I've had a go with Eastern region. Here's Herts & Beds, all contiguous and legal but quite messy in places. Putting Bushey back in SW Herts is far from ideal but there is precedent.
A better arrangement for Herts IMO would be: -Leave Hertsmere alone, it doesn't need to be changed. -Expand Welwyn-Hatfield to take Northaw and Cuffley off Broxbourne so that it is now contiguous with the borough. -Expand Broxbourne north so that it takes the excess of Hertford and Stortford (Hertford Heath, Great Amwell, Stanstead Abbots). -Leave NE Herts as it is. -Leave Stevenage as it is. -Remove Redbourn from Hitchin and Harpenden. -St Albans swiches St Stephen for Redbourn. -Watford becomes Watford borough plus a Three Rivers ward, I went with Leavesden but you could pick Oxhey Hall or Carpenders Park. -SW Herts becomes the Three Rivers borough without Leavesden but with Kings Langley (from Dacorum) and St Stephen (from St Albans). This admittedly isn't ideal but better than the alternatives IMO. -Hemel Hempstead loses Kings Langley, Ashridge and Watling but picks up Bovingdon. -New cross county seat with Bedfordshire appears called 'Dunstable and Berkhamsted' formed of those two towns, Tring, Aldbury, Northcurch, Ashridge, Watling and Caddington. |
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 28, 2020 14:24:44 GMT
The last MP for East Worcestershire, Leverton Harris, was in the wartime coalition as private secretary to the Ministry of Blockade but still had his political career finished by allegations that his wife had been taking food parcels to an interned Austrian Baron. It must have been grossly oversized by then, as it was replaced by three Birmingham constituencies (King's Norton, Moseley, Yardley), plus there were leftover bits that went into Kidderminster. Harris was pencilled in for one of those (or had pencilled himself in), but then didn't stand because of the hysteria. |
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YL
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Post by YL on Jun 28, 2020 14:38:35 GMT
I rarely make it to Liverpool/Merseyside because I can never finish Lancashire properly with seats being too large or too small, I don't get the chance to look elsewhere. As it goes, this attempt at Liverpool had to grind to a halt because the cross-Mersey seat I suggested earlier appears to knock the meeting point of Liverpool/Knowsley/St Helens, all of which go over quota no matter what you do with them, All seats here have their current names except, of course, Wallasey and Kirkdale, and Liverpool West Derby and Broadgreen. Sadly everything then goes wrong so I've stopped but for reference. Given that Lancastrian Merseyside is close enough to 11 quotas to fairly easily have 11 whole seats, why do you want to cross the river? |
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Post by islington on Jun 28, 2020 14:49:34 GMT
Right, I've had a go with Eastern region. Here's Herts & Beds, all contiguous and legal but quite messy in places. Putting Bushey back in SW Herts is far from ideal but there is precedent.
A better arrangement for Herts IMO would be: -Leave Hertsmere alone, it doesn't need to be changed ( edited by Islington to add: except to change the name to S Herts, obviously). -Expand Welwyn-Hatfield to take Northaw and Cuffley off Broxbourne so that it is now contiguous with the borough. -Expand Broxbourne north so that it takes the excess of Hertford and Stortford (Hertford Heath, Great Amwell, Stanstead Abbots). -Leave NE Herts as it is. -Leave Stevenage as it is. -Remove Redbourn from Hitchin and Harpenden. -St Albans swiches St Stephen for Redbourn. -Watford becomes Watford borough plus a Three Rivers ward, I went with Leavesden but you could pick Oxhey Hall or Carpenders Park. -SW Herts becomes the Three Rivers borough without Leavesden but with Kings Langley (from Dacorum) and St Stephen (from St Albans). This admittedly isn't ideal but better than the alternatives IMO. -Hemel Hempstead loses Kings Langley, Ashridge and Watling but picks up Bovingdon. -New cross county seat with Bedfordshire appears called 'Dunstable and Berkhamsted' formed of those two towns, Tring, Aldbury, Northcurch, Ashridge, Watling and Caddington. Let me respond quickly so I can be the first to say that that is miles better than my plan.
I'd go for Carpenders Park as the Three Rivers ward in Watford.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 28, 2020 15:23:56 GMT
To be honest mattb nailed Herts and Beds. Similar to the @peppermintea plan in most respects but also gets rid of the dreadful Hitchin & Harpenden seat, with Hitchin inlcuding parts of Bedfordshire (Stotfold, Arlesely etc) but with no need to go as far out as Biggleswade I'm a bit biased because independently I had come up with an almost identical plan but different in a couple of details |
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Post by pepperminttea on Jun 28, 2020 15:29:38 GMT
A better arrangement for Herts IMO would be: -Leave Hertsmere alone, it doesn't need to be changed ( edited by Islington to add: except to change the name to S Herts, obviously). -Expand Welwyn-Hatfield to take Northaw and Cuffley off Broxbourne so that it is now contiguous with the borough. -Expand Broxbourne north so that it takes the excess of Hertford and Stortford (Hertford Heath, Great Amwell, Stanstead Abbots). -Leave NE Herts as it is. -Leave Stevenage as it is. -Remove Redbourn from Hitchin and Harpenden. -St Albans swiches St Stephen for Redbourn. -Watford becomes Watford borough plus a Three Rivers ward, I went with Leavesden but you could pick Oxhey Hall or Carpenders Park. -SW Herts becomes the Three Rivers borough without Leavesden but with Kings Langley (from Dacorum) and St Stephen (from St Albans). This admittedly isn't ideal but better than the alternatives IMO. -Hemel Hempstead loses Kings Langley, Ashridge and Watling but picks up Bovingdon. -New cross county seat with Bedfordshire appears called 'Dunstable and Berkhamsted' formed of those two towns, Tring, Aldbury, Northcurch, Ashridge, Watling and Caddington. Let me respond quickly so I can be the first to say that that is miles better than my plan.
I'd go for Carpenders Park as the Three Rivers ward in Watford.
Thanks  . And yeah I suppose that may be better for having a more coherent northern part to SW Herts. Also I've just read that the 1,914 'missing' voters in the Eastern region are all in the North Herts district. So this would probably make an unchanged NE Herts constituency too big. However this can easily be rectified simply by moving Walkern back into Stevenage as it was pre-2010. |
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Post by pepperminttea on Jun 28, 2020 15:35:38 GMT
To be honest mattb nailed Herts and Beds. Similar to the @peppermintea plan in most respects but also gets rid of the dreadful Hitchin & Harpenden seat, with Hitchin inlcuding parts of Bedfordshire (Stotfold, Arlesely etc) but with no need to go as far out as Biggleswade I'm a bit biased because independently I had come up with an almost identical plan but different in a couple of details But Harpenden and Berko is even worse IMHO. I did see much of Matt's plan (and much of it I liked) but I wasn't sure about shoving part of Bushey into Watford and replacing it with Northaw when Hertsmere (or South Herts, if you prefer) doesn't need to be touched. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 28, 2020 15:43:00 GMT
To be honest mattb nailed Herts and Beds. Similar to the @peppermintea plan in most respects but also gets rid of the dreadful Hitchin & Harpenden seat, with Hitchin inlcuding parts of Bedfordshire (Stotfold, Arlesely etc) but with no need to go as far out as Biggleswade I'm a bit biased because independently I had come up with an almost identical plan but different in a couple of details But Harpenden and Berko is even worse IMHO. I did see much of Matt's plan (and much of it I liked) but I wasn't sure about shoving part of Bushey into Watford and replacing it with Northaw when Hertsmere (or South Herts, if you prefer) doesn't need to be touched. I've always liked the idea of linking the Northern parts of Dacorum and St Albans, although the direct road links between the two parts aren't great I think it hangs together really well demographically and looks coherent (its more or less the pre-1974 Hemel seat without Hemel itself). As for the Bushey situation it isn't wholly ideal but then nothing ever is. It's true that Hertsmere can be left alone but it isn't an especially coherent unit anyway so I wouldn't worry too much about maintaining its integrity. The way the new Bushey North ward is drawn makes it an ideal fit for Watford - its all physically detached from most of Bushey and very close to the centre of Watford. I wouldn't have said so for the old ward boundaries but this is a very neat fit. The Northaw link isn't so ideal and if we had the old ward boundaries I'd have suggested Welham Green instead but now that brings part of Hatfield with it. As I say nothing is ideal |
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mattb
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Post by mattb on Jun 28, 2020 15:44:19 GMT
A better arrangement for Herts IMO would be: -Leave Hertsmere alone, it doesn't need to be changed ( edited by Islington to add: except to change the name to S Herts, obviously). -Expand Welwyn-Hatfield to take Northaw and Cuffley off Broxbourne so that it is now contiguous with the borough. -Expand Broxbourne north so that it takes the excess of Hertford and Stortford (Hertford Heath, Great Amwell, Stanstead Abbots). -Leave NE Herts as it is. -Leave Stevenage as it is. -Remove Redbourn from Hitchin and Harpenden. -St Albans swiches St Stephen for Redbourn. -Watford becomes Watford borough plus a Three Rivers ward, I went with Leavesden but you could pick Oxhey Hall or Carpenders Park. -SW Herts becomes the Three Rivers borough without Leavesden but with Kings Langley (from Dacorum) and St Stephen (from St Albans). This admittedly isn't ideal but better than the alternatives IMO. -Hemel Hempstead loses Kings Langley, Ashridge and Watling but picks up Bovingdon. -New cross county seat with Bedfordshire appears called 'Dunstable and Berkhamsted' formed of those two towns, Tring, Aldbury, Northcurch, Ashridge, Watling and Caddington. Let me respond quickly so I can be the first to say that that is miles better than my plan. I'd go for Carpenders Park as the Three Rivers ward in Watford.
This was my version (I posted some time ago before the new wards were updated into Boundary Assistant but this is the updated version). As it happens I think it combines the best bits of both suggestions above. The real advantage of taking Bushey N as the ward to add to Watford is that it comprises Bushey Hall (physically part of the built-up area of Watford/Oxhey) and Bushey Mill, but is separated by green belt from Bushey proper. If you take any of the Three Rivers wards you unavoidably divide either South Oxhey (split between the three Watford Rural parish wards) or the core of Abbots Langley itself (split between the three Abbots Langley parish wards). It does mean that Hertsmere is no longer co-terminous with the district - but on the other hand Three Rivers is now united in a single seat. It avoids the awkward link of St Stephens in SW Herts and it means you can add St Albans to the list of almost-unchanged seats. Plus there is no imperative to retain the link between Hitchin & Harpenden (unlike say Welwyn-Hatfield or Hertford & Stortford). It also means all the seats in Beds are retained essentially intact. Under the Dunstable & Berkhamstead option, the existing SW Beds and existing mid-Beds seats have to be significantly altered as they shuffle northwards; whereas under this option, each of them (as well as NE Beds) simply loses sufficient electors to fall within quota (apart from changes to fit with new ward boundaries).  |
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Post by mattb on Jun 28, 2020 15:50:47 GMT
To be honest mattb nailed Herts and Beds. Similar to the @peppermintea plan in most respects but also gets rid of the dreadful Hitchin & Harpenden seat, with Hitchin inlcuding parts of Bedfordshire (Stotfold, Arlesely etc) but with no need to go as far out as Biggleswade I'm a bit biased because independently I had come up with an almost identical plan but different in a couple of details Oh thanks! - sorry I just posted and in the meantime I see the conversation had moved on! We'll have to see how the final numbers stack up of course - looking at the constituency figures I see there was a significant GE surge in Wel-Hat so it may be that the option of adding Cuffley to that seat isn't available in the end anyway. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 28, 2020 15:59:40 GMT
Did you ever contact the Boundary Commission for England about this error? They have repeated it in the polling district breakdown and the Final Recommendations I think I might just leave this as it is to remain in line with the source data, even though I agree with you that it is incorrect. After all, it is not as if you would ever want to split Bushey between two different constituencies.  On the contrary - the new Bushey North (ie not the one on your map) would make an excellent addition to Watford borough constituency, replacin the Three Rivers wards currently included (assuming we stick with 650 seats)  |
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. And yeah I suppose that may be better for having a more coherent northern part to SW Herts. 
