Dec 2019 electorates

[YL]

OK, here is my attempt at extending islington 's West and South Yorks to the rest of the region. Obviously this was done before I saw his Barnsley/Kirklees amendments, but they don't affect anything outside those boroughs.

First, his seats, except those in Rotherham, with a couple of alterations (and the corrections already mentioned) in bold:

Jun 19, 2020 18:17:47 GMT islington said:

Colne Valley as per YL above (existing seat plus Lindley) - 69348
Huddersfield likewise except adding Rastrick instead of Elland (existing seat less Almondbury, plus Lindley and Rastrick) - 75922
Dewsbury as I had it above (the three Dewsbury wards, Heckmondwike and Mirfield) - 69454
Batley & Morley likewise (the four obvious wards plus Birstall & Birkenshaw) - 74328
Barnsley W & Kirkburton (other names are possible): Almondbury, Kirkburton, Denby Dale; Penistone E & W, Darton E & W - 75839
Barnsley C: Existing seat minus the Darton wards and plus Dodworth, Worsborough, Stairfoot - 71769
Barnsley E: Remaining Barnsley wards - 69712
Wakefield: Wakefield town (4 wards), Wakefield Rural, Stanley - 69022
Hemsworth: Existing seat minus Wakefield S and plus Normanton - 75559
Pontefract & Castleford: Existing NP&C seat minus Normanton - 72989
Ossett: Remaining wards of Wakefield; Arsdsley, Middleton Park - 73269
Leeds SE (or Rothwell): Rothwell, Temple Newsam, Garforth, Kippax; S Milford, Shelburn, additionally Byram & Brotherton - 7236774630
Leeds NE & TadcasterWetherby: Alwoodley, Cross Gates, Harewood, Wetherby; TadcasterSpofforth, Marston Moor, Ouseburn - 7201275274
Leeds E: Beeston, Hunslet, Burmantofts, Gipton, Killingbeck - 75696
Leeds N: Headingley, Chapel Allerton, Moortown, Roundhay - 69545
Leeds W: Existing seat minus Bramley and plus Lt London, Adel (all adjusted for new ward boundaries) - 75721
Pudsey: Existing seat minus Guiseley and plus Bramley - 69996
Otley (good to see an old name making a comeback): Remaining Leeds wards; Wharfedale, Ilkley - 73737
Keighley: Existing seat minus Ilkley and plus Bingley Rural - 76068
Shipley: Existing seat minis Bingley R, Wharfedale and plus Heaton, Idle - 75023
Bradford W: Existing seat minus Heaton, Manningham and plus Gt Horton, Queensbury - 71711
Bradford E: Existing seat minus Idle plus Manningham - 72596
Bradford S & Cleckheaton: Remaining Bradford wards; Cleckheaton, Liversedge - 73339
Halifax: Existing seat minus Sowerby Bridge, Warley and plus Hipperholme, Brighouse - 70291
Calder Valley: Rest of Calderdale - 69339
Sheffield Hillsborough: Hillsborough, Wlkley, Crookes, Stannington, Stocksbridge - 72581
Sheffield Ecclesall: Dore, Fulwood, Ecclesall, Beauchief, Graves Pk - 70752
Sheffield C: Central, Broomhill, Nether Edge, Gleadless V, Park - 72685
Sheffield Brightside: Ecclesfield E & W, Firth Park, Southey, Shire Gn - 69092
Sheffield Attercliffe: Darnall, Burngreave, Manor Castle, Richmond, Woodhouse; Brinsworth (the new Brinsworth) - 7586773907 (est.)

Next, my suggestion which aligns with the new ward boundaries in Rotherham:

- Mosborough & Rother Valley: The Mosborough wards join with Wales, the two Aston-cum-Aughton wards, Rother Vale and Sitwell; estimate 74,966.
- "Rotherham East": Anston & Woodsetts, Bramley & Ravenfield, Dalton & Thrybergh, Dinnington, Hellaby & Maltby West, Rawmarsh East, Rawmarsh West, Thurcroft & Wickersley South, Wickersley North. Estimate 74,371. The inclusion of Rawmarsh is a bit ugly and it is not an easy seat to name.
- "Rotherham": Boston Castle, Greasbrough, Hoober, Keppel, Kilnhurst & Swinton East, Rotherham East, Rotherham West, Swinton Rockingham, Wath. Estimate 74,661.

Three Doncaster seats:
Doncaster West (or "Conisbrough"): Roman Ridge, Sprotbrough, Mexborough; four western wards of existing Don Valley. 70891
Doncaster Central: existing plus Stainforth & Barnby Dun. 72618
Doncaster East: the rest of the borough. 72741

Grimsby/Scunthorpe area exactly as I had it before:
Grimsby East & Cleethorpes: existing Grimsby less Freshney, Yarborough, West Marsh, plus Cleethorpes wards and Humberston. 73883
Grimsby West & Brigg: rest of NE Lincs; Brigg & Wolds; Broughton & Appleby. 72301
Scunthorpe: rest of N Lincs apart from Axholme. 71740

Three county seat:
Goole, Howden & Axholme: the Axholme wards; the East Riding south-east from Howdenshire; from Selby district Derwent, Camblesforth, Thorpe Willoughby, Monk Fryston and everything to their south. 75962

Rest of the East Riding plus adjoining areas:
Haltemprice: loses Howden, Howdenshire; gains Hessle and Orchard Park (the latter in Hull). 75619
Hull Docklands: Hull West less Hessle and Derringham, plus Avenue and three southern wards of Hull East. 75046
Hull North: gains Derringham, Sutton, Ings, Holderness; loses Orchard Park, Kingswood. 75620
Beverley & Holderness: loses Hornsea and Beverley Rural; gains two Hull wards (Kingswood, Longhill & Bilton Grange). 74484
Bridlington: current East Yorkshire loses Pocklington, Wolds Weighton; gains Hornsea, Beverley Rural. 72620
Malton & Pocklington ("Derwent Valley" wouldn't be a bad name if there weren't so many River Derwents): a southern strip of the existing Thirsk & Malton including Rillington, Malton and Norton; Wolds Weighton and Pocklington; Strensall and Haxby & Wigginton from York. 70297

Rest of North Yorkshire:
Selby & Heslington: all of Selby district not already accounted for; existing York Outer from Copmanthorpe round to Huntington & New Earswick. 75822
City of York: gains Dringhouses & Woodthorpe, loses part of Hull Road. 71952
Scarborugh & Whitby: gains Thornton Dale, Dales. I accept bjornhattan 's comment that it would be really better to add Filey, but it's too big. 76116
Thirsk & Poppleton: A sprawling rural constituency. Rest of current Thirsk & Malton; two York wards not already accounted for; Great Ayton; Tanfield, Wash Vale, Bishop Monkton. 76166.
Harrogate & Knaresborough. Loses Killinghall & Hampsthwaite. 74603
Skipton & Ripon. Loses two easternmost wards; gains Killinghall & Hampsthwaite and Middleham. 75819
Richmond (Yorks). Everything else: loses Great Ayton, Tanfield and Middleham. 74844

There are certainly things to complain about here, but overall it's not as bad as I expected a non-split plan to be.  Parts of North Yorkshire have some wards shifted around merely to make the numbers work, and there are definitely still rough edges around Hull.  Goole, Howden & Axholme is bad but TBH I think anything in this area will be; ditto the Grimsby/Cleethorpes area which really ought to work better without the regional boundary strangling it.

[YL]

Jun 19, 2020 21:58:09 GMT edgbaston said:

I would really advocate splitting Rotherham North/South. So much more natural in terms of the geography and how the periphery estates & pit villages join together.

And a historic correction given that neither the Rotherham constituency ever properly encompassed the whole town, nor the name Wentworth properly gave note to the inclusion of the villages to the far eastern side of the district.

A natural Rotherham North would, I guess, be the Rawmarsh and Swinton wards, Wath, Hoober, Keppel, Greasbrough and Rotherham West. Unfortunately that's probably slightly too small (estimate 68038) and adding either Boston Castle or Rotherham East makes it too big. You could add Dalton & Thrybergh for 74823, but that's not a very nice crossing of the Don.

You can fit that (with D&T) into islington's plan as follows:
- Rotherham North as above
- Rotherham South: Boston Castle, Sitwell, Rotherham East, Bramley & Ravenfield, both Wickersley wards, both Maltby wards, Dinnington. The electorate estimate is coincidentally also 74823.
- Mosborough & Rother Valley: as before but Anston & Woodsetts replaces Sitwell, now 74512
- Sheffield Attercliffe contains Brinsworth as before

[YL]

Jun 19, 2020 16:58:36 GMT @web said:

Has anyone made an attempt on Lincolnshire?

Well, I would really advocate doing what 🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️ has done and treating it together with N Lincs and NE Lincs, but I think the Commission will stick to the regional border here, as I've been assuming in my Yorkshire maps.

If that regional boundary is respected, then Lincolnshire really needs a partner: it has 7.61 quotas so you could just draw 8 seats in theory but in practice it's going to be nearly impossible even with split wards. Perhaps the most obvious partner is Rutland which gets that 7.61 up to 8.01. Alternatively it could join with Notts, with the two county council areas getting 16 seats between them and Nottingham city retaining its three seats (although South is too big and the other two are too small). I think the latter gives an easier breakdown of the region as a whole:

Derbyshire (including Derby city) 11 seats (as now, though some adjustments are needed)
Notts + Lincs (admin counties) 16
Nottingham city 3
Leicester city 3
Leics (admin county) + Rutland + North Northamptonshire (pending) 11
West Northamptonshire (pending) 4

But that Leics/Rutland/N Northants group could be awkward; a three county "Greater Rutland" seat might be an option. In spite of that, I'd probably be looking at Lincs with Notts. Grantham & Newark?

[Deleted]

I just really don’t want ‘Lincoln and North Hykeham.’

[🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️]

Jun 20, 2020 10:38:41 GMT YL said:

Jun 19, 2020 16:58:36 GMT @web said:

Has anyone made an attempt on Lincolnshire?

Well, I would really advocate doing what 🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️ has done and treating it together with N Lincs and NE Lincs, but I think the Commission will stick to the regional border here, as I've been assuming in my Yorkshire maps.

Reuniting Lincolnshire was really just to avoid the Isle of Axholme ending up in some Yorkshire monstrosity. It's easily possible to draw Holland + the decapitated version of Lindsey + City of Lincoln for five constituencies – indeed, it involves less change than than my preferred version – and then Kesteven + Rutland for three as before:

1 South Holland 73424 Yes
2 Boston and Skegness 71912 Yes
3 Louth and Horncastle 70580 Yes
4 Gainsborough 69642 Yes
5 Lincoln 70528 Yes
6 Sleaford and North Hykeham 75243 Yes
7 Grantham 75946 Yes
8 Rutland and Stamford 74759 Yes

And is Yorkshire possible without Humbersiding Lincolnshire?

[edgbaston]

Jun 20, 2020 9:25:03 GMT YL said:

Jun 19, 2020 21:58:09 GMT edgbaston said:

I would really advocate splitting Rotherham North/South. So much more natural in terms of the geography and how the periphery estates & pit villages join together.

And a historic correction given that neither the Rotherham constituency ever properly encompassed the whole town, nor the name Wentworth properly gave note to the inclusion of the villages to the far eastern side of the district.

A natural Rotherham North would, I guess, be the Rawmarsh and Swinton wards, Wath, Hoober, Keppel, Greasbrough and Rotherham West. Unfortunately that's probably slightly too small (estimate 68038) and adding either Boston Castle or Rotherham East makes it too big. You could add Dalton & Thrybergh for 74823, but that's not a very nice crossing of the Don.

You can fit that (with D&T) into islington's plan as follows:
- Rotherham North as above
- Rotherham South: Boston Castle, Sitwell, Rotherham East, Bramley & Ravenfield, both Wickersley wards, both Maltby wards, Dinnington. The electorate estimate is coincidentally also 74823.
- Mosborough & Rother Valley: as before but Anston & Woodsetts replaces Sitwell, now 74512
- Sheffield Attercliffe contains Brinsworth as before

Well I think that then just makes it my plan lol :/ - except I would put Rother Valley first in the name order as it encompasses a larger area of the constituency.

I think I would also opt for Sheffield East instead of Attercliffe too. Attercliffe isn’t really a meaningful place as it once was. With the decline of industry etc. But it largely doesn’t matter.

[islington]

OK, is this working?

Edited to add: Clearly it isn't.

[islington]

Let's try again...

Clearly I need more practice with images, but this is my stab at North Yorks. I did this without looking at YL's version because I didn't want to be influenced by it, but I see we both independently had the idea of severing the 135-year association of Thirsk and Malton.

[islington]

Here's the southeastern part of Y&H.

This was really quite tricky and there's plenty to complain about. I've avoided YL's three-county seat, but to do it I had to split Axholme, which leaves the Scunthorpe seat with poor internal connectivity (like the Beverley seat). And I'm not very happy about splitting Hull N & S but it was the only way I could get the numbers to work.

[greenhert]

Jun 20, 2020 15:00:30 GMT islington said:

Let's try again...

Clearly I need more practice with images, but this is my stab at North Yorks. I did this without looking at YL's version because I didn't want to be influenced by it, but I see we both independently had the idea of severing the 135-year association of Thirsk and Malton.

View Attachment

Thirsk and Malton were actually in separate constituencies from 1983 to 2010. The Ryedale constituency contained Malton but not Thirsk.

[YL]

Jun 20, 2020 10:45:42 GMT @web said:

I just really don’t want ‘Lincoln and North Hykeham.’

In my attempt at Lincolnshire and Nottinghamshire (map at end of post, I hope) Lincoln is unchanged.

There are some awkward numbers in Notts: Ashfield and Mansfield are both too big and removing Warsop from the latter makes it too small, so I have an ugly nibble at Ashfield. The arrangement in Nottingham is simply a way of doing it without split wards, not a particular recommendation for a radical change. The seats around Nottingham have very little change.

Bassetlaw 70438
Southwell & Retford 72984
Sherwood 69247
Mansfield 74718
Ashfield 70871
Gedling 70463
Broxtowe 73585
Rushcliffe 75506
Nottingham South 71835
Nottingham North West 72413
Nottingham North East 69422

Now across the border...

Grantham & Newark 74987

... and into Lincs

Gainsborough 75846
Lincoln 74773
Louth & Horncastle 69907
Boothby Graffoe 69161
Stamford & Sleaford 75247
Boston & Skegness 75619
South Holland & the Deepings 70749

... because who doesn't like a constituency named after a random obscure wapentake?

[bsjmcr]

Excellent stuff, just my 2p on the names...

Jun 20, 2020 6:36:14 GMT mattb said:

Jun 19, 2020 23:59:31 GMT lancastrian said:

An attempt at Lancashire, Manchester and Cheshire, using @pr1berske 's suggestion of Chorley and Horwich as the Lancashire/Greater Manchester cross border constituency.



Do they have pitchforks in Runcorn and Ellesmere Port? The size and shapes of the wards in Cheshire make it all very awkward. Given the 5% rule most of Greater Manchester isn't that bad IMO - I'm sure residents of Cheadle would disagree.

It isn't strictly necessary to include Rainford in West Lancashire, but I think it's better than the arrangement I had before. St Helens North is within quota either way. On the new boundaries for Pendle Brierfield East and Clover Hill would be in the Burnley seat - unfortunately the new wards I think guarantee one of the towns being split.

Edit: Fylde can be improved by moving Stanah to Blackpool North, Freckleton to Fylde and Gisburn/Rimington to Mid Lancashire.

Thanks for posting.
This was my NW - not dissimilar to yours. But Stockport works nicely for three whole seats and I think generally my Cheshire works better than yours. Ended up quite liking most of this actually, only one or two really contrived outcomes.

Carlisle 69074
Workington & W Cumberland 74785 West Cumbria
Barrow & Furness 72167
N Cumberland 72624 North Cumbria
Westmoreland & Penrith 76212 South Cumbria / Lake District
(I don't think anybody identifies with those old counties any more)
Morecambe 69762
Lancaster 70353
Pendle & Bowland Mid Lancashire ? 69416 
Burnley 70385
Rossendale & Darwen 73180
Accrington 71267 Goodbye Hyndburn, you will not be missed! 
Blackburn 74925
Clitheroe & Garstang 70113
Fleetwood & Poulton 71622
Fylde 71451
Blackpool 71267
Preston N 72663
Preston S 74653
Crosby 70239
Chorley 69159
Leyland & W Lancs 70141
Southport 71299
Ormskirk & Skelmersdale 70343
Bootle 75258
Wallasey 69103
Birkenhead 74300
Wirral West 71303 - Can't imply that the whole of 'the' Wirral is in the seat?
Ellesmere Port & Bebbington 74218
Northwich & Norton 70859 What?
Widnes & Runcorn 72332
Liverpool Wavertree 73864
Liverpool Garston & Halewood 75335
Liverpool Riverside 70433
Liverpool West Derby & Roby 71847
Liverpool Walton 74492
Huyton & Kirby 70622
St Helens N 76090
St Helens S 69726
Eddisbury Cheshire West 74032  - time for that silly name to be put out to grass.
Chester & Great Sutton 75805 Where?
Winsford & Alsager 75493
Crewe & Nantwich 69559
Sandbach & Congleton 70859 Congleton and Sandbach (in order of size?)
Macclesfield 69530
Tatton 76016
Warrington South 73668
Padgate Warrington North & Lowton 74732 Never head of Padgate, and I'm from the North West! But Lowton is actually a good fit, I can't really tell the boundary when I go to Bent's garden centre. 
Manchester Wythenshawe & Hale 76142 - Controversial, but no more so than joining it with Sale!
Manchester Central Moss Side 74462 I think the seat with the City Centre wards should be called Central regardless. I like the inclusion of Trafford's 'Clifford' which also means M'cr Central makes more sense.
Manchester Withington 73569
Manchester Ardwick 75947
Manchester Blackley & Broughton 72532 - I like it!
Cheadle 75763
Hazel Grove 74280
Stockport 76014
Ashton-u-L 71215
Denton & Hyde 73121
Failsworth Manchester East & Failsworth 71280 - I like how "Manchester" precedes Blackley and Broughton, and as should this as it includes a pretty major part of Manchester, the City stadium, etc, and the Oldham wards are essentially 'East Manchester' in any case. Read: Norwich North.
Saddleworth and Stalybridge 75989
Oldham 74484
Rochdale 71665
Heywood & Middleton 72918
Bury 69332
Altrincham & Sale 74811
Prestwich & Radcliffe 75637 Yes!
Bolton 75760
Farnworth & Hulton 69697 Bit naughty that Walkden is split! But yes, with the updated numbers, Salford is a nightmare, so looks like it had to be done. 
Westhoughton 72871
Stretford & Urmston 75557
Swinton and Worsley 75607 - Swinton is more major
Salford & Eccles 69351
Makerfield 74400
Leigh 69245
Wigan 75661

[gwynthegriff]

Jun 20, 2020 6:36:14 GMT mattb said:

Jun 19, 2020 23:59:31 GMT lancastrian said:

An attempt at Lancashire, Manchester and Cheshire, using @pr1berske 's suggestion of Chorley and Horwich as the Lancashire/Greater Manchester cross border constituency.



Do they have pitchforks in Runcorn and Ellesmere Port? The size and shapes of the wards in Cheshire make it all very awkward. Given the 5% rule most of Greater Manchester isn't that bad IMO - I'm sure residents of Cheadle would disagree.

It isn't strictly necessary to include Rainford in West Lancashire, but I think it's better than the arrangement I had before. St Helens North is within quota either way. On the new boundaries for Pendle Brierfield East and Clover Hill would be in the Burnley seat - unfortunately the new wards I think guarantee one of the towns being split.

Edit: Fylde can be improved by moving Stanah to Blackpool North, Freckleton to Fylde and Gisburn/Rimington to Mid Lancashire.

Thanks for posting.
This was my NW - not dissimilar to yours. But Stockport works nicely for three whole seats and I think generally my Cheshire works better than yours. Ended up quite liking most of this actually, only one or two really contrived outcomes.

The residents will emerge laden with pitchforks if Alsager and Audlem are placed in a constituency named Winsford . . .

[Merseymike]

Not sure your Crosby seat includes Crosby. It would need to include Church and Victoria wards currently in Bootle as both Waterloo and Crosby centres and all the relevant facilities - fire, police, library, ambulance etc - are in those wards. That's why it was renamed Sefton Central after the last change.

[Deleted]

Pendle could perhaps be named Pendle Hill

Preston South should do as South Ribble

Now I think the real Mid Lancashire is the Ribble Valley / Wyre one you've created could dust off this beauty of a long forgotten Hundred.

[minionofmidas]

That splitting of Ellesmere Port looks almost unavoidable (the tradeoffs seem to involve splitting at least two and possibly all three out of Neston, Bebington and a ward or two, while as is the rest of Wallasey-to-Chester looks good) but I'd suggest acknowledging what you did in the constituency name. Chester & Ellesmere Port West, Ellesmere Port East & Bebington.
I know Neston is historically part of the Wirral, but it's not part of that authority and has long been part of a constituency name so I'd namedrop it as well.

[🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️]

Jun 20, 2020 15:26:31 GMT YL said:

Jun 20, 2020 10:45:42 GMT @web said:

I just really don’t want ‘Lincoln and North Hykeham.’

In my attempt at Lincolnshire and Nottinghamshire (map at end of post, I hope) Lincoln is unchanged.

There are some awkward numbers in Notts: Ashfield and Mansfield are both too big and removing Warsop from the latter makes it too small, so I have an ugly nibble at Ashfield. The arrangement in Nottingham is simply a way of doing it without split wards, not a particular recommendation for a radical change. The seats around Nottingham have very little change.

Bassetlaw 70438
Southwell & Retford 72984
Sherwood 69247
Mansfield 74718
Ashfield 70871
Gedling 70463
Broxtowe 73585
Rushcliffe 75506
Nottingham South 71835
Nottingham North West 72413
Nottingham North East 69422

Now across the border...

Grantham & Newark 74987

... and into Lincs

Gainsborough 75846
Lincoln 74773
Louth & Horncastle 69907
Boothby Graffoe 69161
Stamford & Sleaford 75247
Boston & Skegness 75619
South Holland & the Deepings 70749

... because who doesn't like a constituency named after a random obscure wapentake?

Boothby Graffoe is a brilliant name for a constituency. That said, I'm not keen on cross-boundary seats between the Parts of Kesteven and all four of Holland, Lindsey, the City of Lincoln, and Nottinghamshire.

[🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️]

Jun 20, 2020 17:07:23 GMT minionofmidas said:

That splitting of Ellesmere Port looks almost unavoidable (the tradeoffs seem to involve splitting at least two and possibly all three out of Neston, Bebington and a ward or two, while as is the rest of Wallasey-to-Chester looks good) but I'd suggest acknowledging what you did in the constituency name. Chester & Ellesmere Port West, Ellesmere Port East & Bebington.
I know Neston is historically part of the Wirral, but it's not part of that authority and has long been part of a constituency name so I'd namedrop it as well.

Or one or more cross-Mersey seats between Liverpool and Wallasey/Birkenhead.

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2020 18:12:38 GMT 🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️ said:

Jun 20, 2020 17:07:23 GMT minionofmidas said:

That splitting of Ellesmere Port looks almost unavoidable (the tradeoffs seem to involve splitting at least two and possibly all three out of Neston, Bebington and a ward or two, while as is the rest of Wallasey-to-Chester looks good) but I'd suggest acknowledging what you did in the constituency name. Chester & Ellesmere Port West, Ellesmere Port East & Bebington.
I know Neston is historically part of the Wirral, but it's not part of that authority and has long been part of a constituency name so I'd namedrop it as well.

Or one or more cross-Mersey seats between Liverpool and Wallasey/Birkenhead.

I assume it won't be suggested but I wonder if Kirkdale and Wallasey could be argued slightly better this time around. The tunnels are not a barrier, literally, and the Mersey isn't the Thames.

[minionofmidas]

Jun 20, 2020 18:38:11 GMT @pr1berske said:

Jun 20, 2020 18:12:38 GMT 🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️ said:

Or one or more cross-Mersey seats between Liverpool and Wallasey/Birkenhead.

I assume it won't be suggested but I wonder if Kirkdale and Wallasey could be argued slightly better this time around. The tunnels are not a barrier, literally, and the Mersey isn't the Thames.

when it was last suggested the Wirral-Cheshire line was considered sacrosanct. I doubt it's going to be considered by anybody unless the numbers strongly suggest that Wirral and Liverpool need each other for a partner. Also doesn't necessarily create a very logical map of the suburban parts of Wirral. But yeah, obviously that is another way you could avoid splitting Ellesmere Port.