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Post by bjornhattan on Feb 19, 2020 23:08:01 GMT
I have an aunt who lives in Early - which is so close to the centre of Reading that it is as Reading as it can be - yet it's in Wokingham. Even Reading University isn't in Reading. I've posted before that the council boundary should be the motorway. I very much agree about the council boundary. My maternal grandmother grew up in Pitts Lane in Woodley and went to school in Earley in the 1930's, so that's interesting. It helps that the council have indirectly described exactly where the boundary should be drawn - through their bus company! The Reading ticket zone is almost exactly where I'd draw the line for a boundary.
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Post by Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells on Feb 19, 2020 23:11:23 GMT
What I'd do to sort this out is as follows-: . South of the River, I'd put the Bell Tower area into Battle as that has a shared school catchment and good transport links now they rebuilt the Cow Lane bridge. The new ward boundary would be drawn along from the Caversham Road railway bridge along Caversham Road then along Brigham Rd to the river. That should make it a reasonable ward. They should then extend Coley ward from the Bath Road to the Oxford Road bounded by the IDR. They would be a reasonable compromise for Coley and take enough electors off Abbey to put the area east of Brigham Road, north of the rail line and west of the Reading Bridge approach road by Thames Water HQ into Abbey. Then put the remaining part of their proposed Thames ward(east of the Reading Bridge approach road) into Park, as that is under-electorate and needs that area to be within a reasonable level of variance. It would then be renamed Newtown because Newtown would be the bulk of the new ward. Cemetery Junction would be a good name but it focuses too much on the east end of the ward. . North of the River, I'd move all the area south of Gosbrook Road/Church St back into Caversham as it is an integral part of Caversham. To remedy this, I'd move the area bounded by Peppard Road to the west, Henley Road to the south and Chiltern Road to the east into Emmer Green ward. Most of this is in the Henley Road area, not Caversham and fits much better in this ward than in Caversham. To stop this ward being over electorate,I'd probably move the part of Emmer Green ward bounded by Peppard Rd to the east, Kidmore End Rd to the north and Evesham Rd to the south into Heights ward. This is an unfortunate compromise, because this includes Emmer Green Primary and St Barnabas Church, which are recognisably in Emmer Green. But it has to be done to sort out the Caversham debacle. There's no alternative but to cross the river somewhere if you want all 3 member wards. At 121002 forecast electors in the borough and 16 wards that's 7562 per ward, the maximum variance is 10% so 8318 is the maximum size (or it might actually be 10.5%, so a maximum size of 8356, because they've proposed a ward with 8350). So 3x 3 member wards can accommodate at most 24954 (or 25068) electors. There are 25226 forecast electors north of the river. This is when I feel like sending Mapledurham back into South Oxon. I wonder why there are 25226 electors in Caversham, given that there's going to be no housebuilding within the borough boundary North of the River but the development on Reading Golf Course and that might not even go ahead. The rest is in South Oxon.
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Post by Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells on Feb 19, 2020 23:12:40 GMT
I very much agree about the council boundary. My maternal grandmother grew up in Pitts Lane in Woodley and went to school in Earley in the 1930's, so that's interesting. It helps that the council have indirectly described exactly where the boundary should be drawn - through their bus company! The Reading ticket zone is almost exactly where I'd draw the line for a boundary. Exactly, without Theale and the places south of the M4 like Spencer's Wood.
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Post by bjornhattan on Feb 19, 2020 23:18:10 GMT
It helps that the council have indirectly described exactly where the boundary should be drawn - through their bus company! The Reading ticket zone is almost exactly where I'd draw the line for a boundary. Exactly, without Theale and the places south of the M4 like Spencer's Wood. The one grey area would be Winnersh - it doesn't feel close enough to the urban centre to be Reading proper, but it is West of the motorway. Would there be any merit in extending the boundary north at all, to Sonning Common? I always feel like that village is in the wrong district - South Oxon is more centred on Wallingford/Didcot, and barring Henley looks far more to Oxford than Reading - whereas Sonning Common seems to have incredibly weak ties with Oxford. It wouldn't go down well with those who like the traditional counties (though they'd not mind it as much as what I'd do to Shrivenham), but Caversham is already Reading despite being traditional Oxfordshire, and of course a huge swathe of traditional Berkshire lies under the yoke of Oxonian rule.
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Post by Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells on Feb 19, 2020 23:51:12 GMT
Exactly, without Theale and the places south of the M4 like Spencer's Wood. The one grey area would be Winnersh - it doesn't feel close enough to the urban centre to be Reading proper, but it is West of the motorway. Would there be any merit in extending the boundary north at all, to Sonning Common? I always feel like that village is in the wrong district - South Oxon is more centred on Wallingford/Didcot, and barring Henley looks far more to Oxford than Reading - whereas Sonning Common seems to have incredibly weak ties with Oxford. It wouldn't go down well with those who like the traditional counties (though they'd not mind it as much as what I'd do to Shrivenham), but Caversham is already Reading despite being traditional Oxfordshire, and of course a huge swathe of traditional Berkshire lies under the yoke of Oxonian rule. We will avenge the loss of the Vale of the White Horse,don't you worry!😜 Being serious, though, Sonning Common is placed to become the big town centre in South Oxon with its rapid expansion and it is a clearly different settlement from Reading, so no I'd keep it in South Oxon. In 1999 I think, we tried to bring Eye and Dunsden parish into Reading Borough and it was vociferously opposed and rejected. It would be the same with Sodding Common.Winnersh shouldn't be in Reading, because it's not in the Simply Reading zone and is a separate development,which is much better connected to Wokingham than Reading. If the proper counties were in place, then the Vale of White Horse would incorporate all the parts of South Oxon west of the Thames and restore that to Berkshire, in its rightful place.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Feb 21, 2020 13:01:32 GMT
I see from the Newham draft proposals that a Plashet ward is being revived. s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/lgbce/Reviews/Greater%20London/Newham/Draft%20Recs/Newham_SO.pdfThe thing is it is in a totally different area to that which existed prior to 2002 when it covered parts of what are now in Plaistow North and West Ham wards. This seems to be a bit of a habit in Newham where the pre-2002 Beckton ward covered an area in Canning Town before relocating to a totally different part of the borough. In both cases it seems that the newer location for these ward names is the appropriate one - Beckton now covers the area around the old Beckton gasworks and the proposed Plashet is the area around Plashet Park, both of these areas being in East Ham. The question is why the previous wards in West Ham were so inappropriately named..
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Post by bjornhattan on Feb 21, 2020 13:10:43 GMT
I see from the Newham draft proposals that a Plashet ward is being revived. s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/lgbce/Reviews/Greater%20London/Newham/Draft%20Recs/Newham_SO.pdfThe thing is it is in a totally different area to that which existed prior to 2002 when it covered parts of what are now in Plaistow North and West Ham wards. This seems to be a bit of a habit in Newham where the pre-2002 Beckton ward covered an area in Canning Town before relocating to a totally different part of the borough. In both cases it seems that the newer location for these ward names is the appropriate one - Beckton now covers the area around the old Beckton gasworks and the proposed Plashet is the area around Plashet Park, both of these areas being in East Ham. The question is why the previous wards in West Ham were so inappropriately named.. Those wards look fine (but I'm a complete outsider), and in fact it's interesting to see how they've handled these changes given the huge developments in the area. The old Stratford and New Town had an incredibly high population and I don't think Docks was that far behind either. The one issue I have is that they've gone for "Canning Town" and "Canning Town North", and "East Ham" and "East Ham South". It really bugs me that one ward has a compass point and the other doesn't. It wouldn't be a problem if the latter ward was paired with another area and named accordingly (as seen with "Middlesbrough" and "Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland"), but the asymmetry just seems odd in this case.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Feb 21, 2020 13:15:05 GMT
I see from the Newham draft proposals that a Plashet ward is being revived. s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/lgbce/Reviews/Greater%20London/Newham/Draft%20Recs/Newham_SO.pdfThe thing is it is in a totally different area to that which existed prior to 2002 when it covered parts of what are now in Plaistow North and West Ham wards. This seems to be a bit of a habit in Newham where the pre-2002 Beckton ward covered an area in Canning Town before relocating to a totally different part of the borough. In both cases it seems that the newer location for these ward names is the appropriate one - Beckton now covers the area around the old Beckton gasworks and the proposed Plashet is the area around Plashet Park, both of these areas being in East Ham. The question is why the previous wards in West Ham were so inappropriately named.. Those wards look fine (but I'm a complete outsider), and in fact it's interesting to see how they've handled these changes given the huge developments in the area. The old Stratford and New Town had an incredibly high population and I don't think Docks was that far behind either. The one issue I have is that they've gone for "Canning Town" and "Canning Town North", and "East Ham" and "East Ham South". It really bugs me that one ward has a compass point and the other doesn't. It wouldn't be a problem if the latter ward was paired with another area and named accordingly (as seen with "Middlesbrough" and "Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland"), but the asymmetry just seems odd in this case. Yes that bugs me too. Also the completely unnecessary renaming of Wall End as 'Burges' despite there being minimal changes to the actual boundaries and this being a longstanding ward name for that area
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Post by evergreenadam on Feb 21, 2020 13:21:59 GMT
Those wards look fine (but I'm a complete outsider), and in fact it's interesting to see how they've handled these changes given the huge developments in the area. The old Stratford and New Town had an incredibly high population and I don't think Docks was that far behind either. The one issue I have is that they've gone for "Canning Town" and "Canning Town North", and "East Ham" and "East Ham South". It really bugs me that one ward has a compass point and the other doesn't. It wouldn't be a problem if the latter ward was paired with another area and named accordingly (as seen with "Middlesbrough" and "Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland"), but the asymmetry just seems odd in this case. Yes that bugs me too. Also the completely unnecessary renaming of Wall End as 'Burges' despite there being minimal changes to the actual boundaries and this being a longstanding ward name for that area Totally agree with all the above. How do you even pronounce Burges? It’s like it was meant to be Burgess and they missed off an ‘s’.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2020 13:36:02 GMT
Yes that bugs me too. Also the completely unnecessary renaming of Wall End as 'Burges' despite there being minimal changes to the actual boundaries and this being a longstanding ward name for that area Totally agree with all the above. How do you even pronounce Burges? It’s like it was meant to be Burgess and they missed off an ‘s’. The Burges family acquired estates in East Ham in the C18, funded by their connection with the East India Company, and remained connected to the area into the C20 - long enough to profit handsomely from its development.
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Post by Wisconsin on Feb 21, 2020 13:53:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2020 14:25:05 GMT
As someone has already said, changing the name of a minimally altered ward from the old and familiar "Wall End" to the unfamiliar "Burges" seems perverse. "Maryland" is interesting - it really does have a connection to the American state. In 1638 the Ilford-based merchant Richard Lee migrated to America, where he acquired an estate at Maryland Point on the Potomac River. After 20 years he returned to Ilford and bought land at Stratford, where he built a house that he called Maryland Point. The Council is correct to state that, strictly speaking, "Maryland" refers only to a very small area to the north and west of the station of that name. Richard Lee's family eventually produced Robert E Lee, the leading Confederate general.
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Post by andrewp on Feb 22, 2020 9:54:12 GMT
The Leader of Somerset County Council has written to the Secretary of State asking for permission to make a bid to form a Unitary Council for Somerset. The 4 Somerset District councils are opposed to it and are thought to be working on the possibility of proposing a number of smaller Unitaries.
The County Council are hoping to have elections to a shadow authority in May 2021 with the possible formation of a Unitary authority in 2022.
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Post by finsobruce on Feb 22, 2020 9:56:44 GMT
The Leader of Somerset County Council has written to the Secretary of State asking for permission to make a bid to form a Unitary Council for Somerset. The 4 Somerset District councils are opposed to it and are thought to be working on the possibility of proposing a number of smaller Unitaries. The County Council are hoping to have elections to a shadow authority in May 2021 with the possible formation of a Unitary authority in 2022. Could get tasty.
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Post by yellowperil on Feb 22, 2020 12:28:36 GMT
The Leader of Somerset County Council has written to the Secretary of State asking for permission to make a bid to form a Unitary Council for Somerset. The 4 Somerset District councils are opposed to it and are thought to be working on the possibility of proposing a number of smaller Unitaries. The County Council are hoping to have elections to a shadow authority in May 2021 with the possible formation of a Unitary authority in 2022. Could get tasty. What would a "2 big unitaries" Somerset look like? I assume merger of the newly merged Taunton & West Somerset with Sedgemoor to create an enlarged West Somerset , and another merger between South Somerset and Mendip to form East Somerset? Or a merger of Sedgemoor and Mendip to form Midsomer? I feel a murder coming on!
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Post by andrewp on Feb 22, 2020 12:47:06 GMT
What would a "2 big unitaries" Somerset look like? I assume merger of the newly merged Taunton & West Somerset with Sedgemoor to create an enlarged West Somerset , and another merger between South Somerset and Mendip to form East Somerset? Or a merger of Sedgemoor and Mendip to form Midsomer? I feel a murder coming on! A consultant was commissioned to look at the options, and its fair to say that just about every combination was on the list considered. The options included throwing North Somerset and BANES into the mix as well. I think the favoured 2 authority option is North and South - so Somerset West and Taunton with South Somerset, and Sedgemoor with Mendip. An East/ West split is more logical to me, but maybe not politically so. The Lib Dem’s are pro the status quo and Labour are pro unitary. Theres a certain irony that last time unitary was considered was 2007 when the then Lib Dem controlled county council was pro unitary and set against the then mostly Conservative controlled districts, where as now we have a Conservative controlled county council and 3/4 Lib Dem controlled Districts. I’m not sure what Conservative controlled Sedgemoor DC think.
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Post by yellowperil on Feb 22, 2020 12:55:54 GMT
What would a "2 big unitaries" Somerset look like? I assume merger of the newly merged Taunton & West Somerset with Sedgemoor to create an enlarged West Somerset , and another merger between South Somerset and Mendip to form East Somerset? Or a merger of Sedgemoor and Mendip to form Midsomer? I feel a murder coming on! A consultant was commissioned to look at the options, and its fair to say that just about every combination was on the list considered. The options included throwing North Somerset and BANES into the mix as well. I think the favoured 2 authority option is North and South - so Somerset West and Taunton with South Somerset, and Sedgemoor with Mendip. An East/ West split is more logical to me, but maybe not politically so. The Lib Dem’s are pro the status quo and Labour are pro unitary. Theres a certain irony that last time unitary was considered was 2007 when the then Lib Dem controlled county council was pro unitary and set against the then mostly Conservative controlled districts, where as now we have a Conservative controlled county council and 3/4 Lib Dem controlled Districts. I’m not sure what Conservative controlled Sedgemoor DC think. thank you-very interesting!
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Post by andrewp on Feb 22, 2020 13:09:05 GMT
A consultant was commissioned to look at the options, and its fair to say that just about every combination was on the list considered. The options included throwing North Somerset and BANES into the mix as well. I think the favoured 2 authority option is North and South - so Somerset West and Taunton with South Somerset, and Sedgemoor with Mendip. An East/ West split is more logical to me, but maybe not politically so. The Lib Dem’s are pro the status quo and Labour are pro unitary. Theres a certain irony that last time unitary was considered was 2007 when the then Lib Dem controlled county council was pro unitary and set against the then mostly Conservative controlled districts, where as now we have a Conservative controlled county council and 3/4 Lib Dem controlled Districts. I’m not sure what Conservative controlled Sedgemoor DC think. thank you-very interesting! Labour are pro unitary, I think, because of the associated promise of more power to Town and Parish councils. They have a majority on Bridgwater Town Council, and likely always will have, and they would like to have more devolved power for that body.
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Feb 22, 2020 18:53:22 GMT
What would a "2 big unitaries" Somerset look like? I assume merger of the newly merged Taunton & West Somerset with Sedgemoor to create an enlarged West Somerset , and another merger between South Somerset and Mendip to form East Somerset? Or a merger of Sedgemoor and Mendip to form Midsomer? I feel a murder coming on! If the figures on Wiki are correct, shire Somerset has a population of about 550,000. That's the same as unitary Sheffield, same as unitary County Durham, bigger than unitary East Riding at 340,000. But four unitary authorities would be 120,000 or so each, would that be viable? My initial instinct is a unitary county would fit best - and that would also allow you to say that Somerset was "really" three unitaries, two urban bits and the rural bit. And even - pitchforks at the ready - put the non-Bath bits back in a single Somerset authority.
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Post by Foggy on Feb 22, 2020 19:40:07 GMT
Oh dear. It looks like the legacy of our "Avon" nightmare around here has left people with a bit of a 'Mauer im Kopf' regarding this discussion!
My ideal solution, if money were no object, would involve a County Council for all of Somerset, with 8 districts below it. If that's not possible, then a pragmatic solution of 3 unitaries would be the way to go: BANES + Mendip for one; N Somerset + Sedgemoor for another; and S Somerset + Somerset W & Taunton for the other.
I believe the latter approach is favoured by the current MP for Wells.
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