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Post by matureleft on Aug 13, 2019 14:44:13 GMT
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Aug 13, 2019 15:02:27 GMT
Yeh, looks like Kirchner is on her way back  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2019 15:32:05 GMT
Yeh, looks like Kirchner is on her way back Some people just never seem to go away.  |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 13, 2019 18:20:31 GMT
Given some of the awful rightwingers elected in other South American countries, to get rid of Macri is a bonus
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Aug 14, 2019 11:37:04 GMT
Even by Argentine standards, Kirchner has played a blinder at finding a donkey to act unsubtly as a stooge. This is a gold standard cipher.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Aug 14, 2019 11:37:50 GMT
Given some of the awful rightwingers elected in other South American countries, to get rid of Macri is a bonus I feel you do him a disservice. Whilst he isn't to your tastes, he does not compare to the likes of Bolsonaro. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Aug 14, 2019 11:39:35 GMT
This will no doubt just continue Argentina's consistent failure to develop into the country it threatened to be. Macri has failed to deal with the problem that has plagued the country for about 150 years-rampant clientelism. And now, the party that has managed to be corrupt from the left and the right alike is back to exacerbate it.
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Post by matureleft on Aug 14, 2019 11:53:51 GMT
In the early 20th Century (when it lay within our "informal" empire, heavily invested with British capital) Argentina was a relatively wealthy nation - wealthier per capita than many European states.
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Aug 14, 2019 12:07:53 GMT
"Rich as an Argentinian" was a real thing that people said in the early 20th century. It continued for quite a while.  |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Aug 14, 2019 12:15:06 GMT
"Lords of the Pampas" at the gaming tables at Monte Carlo et al were a known literary trope a hundred years ago. And Italy and Austria didn't overtake Argentina economically until the Seventies.
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 14, 2019 13:12:41 GMT
Given some of the awful rightwingers elected in other South American countries, to get rid of Macri is a bonus I feel you do him a disservice. Whilst he isn't to your tastes, he does not compare to the likes of Bolsonaro. That's true - but I'm glad the left wing candidate won. And Kirschner wasn't perfect but Argentina has some of the best legislation relating to LGBT rights in the world. |
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Toylyyev
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Post by Toylyyev on Aug 14, 2019 16:28:49 GMT
Regional relative PPPGDP for presidential election years since Nestor Kirchner's election, still according to the same method as in vote-2012.proboards.com/post/787418
Argentina Brazil Peru Uruguay Chile Bolivia
03 .353 02 .309 01 .172 99 .359 00 .384 02 .11
07 .433 06 .311 06 .193 04 .308 06 .439 05 .11
11 .476 10 .357 11 .25 09 .395 10 .471 09 .124
15 .441 14 .363 16 .277 14 .458 13 .516 14 .139
19 .384 18 .313 19 .28 19 .452 17 .498 19 .146
------- 19 .313 ------- ------- 19 .509 -------
19 .376 ------- 19 .276 19 .442 ------- 19 .153
19 .308 19 .493
The numbers for 2019 are from the IMF spring prediction. Edit: Their July update has revised the prediction for Latin America and the Caribbean by -.8%, and by -1.3% for Brazil. (straight GDP there) Edit: (27/10) Revised data for 2019 from the October 2019 database ( link) added to the table below the dotted lines. Data for Bolivia also included now. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Aug 18, 2019 12:19:50 GMT
As resignation statements go, I thought this from the economy minister taking responsibility was quite classy.
Mr Dujovne said that the government's economic team needed "significant renewal".
"I believe my resignation is in keeping with my place in a government that listens to the people and acts accordingly," he wrote.
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 18, 2019 12:26:05 GMT
As resignation statements go, I thought this from the economy minister taking responsibility was quite classy. Mr Dujovne said that the government's economic team needed "significant renewal".
"I believe my resignation is in keeping with my place in a government that listens to the people and acts accordingly," he wrote."I'm an economist, get me out of here!" |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Aug 18, 2019 12:56:06 GMT
I feel you do him a disservice. Whilst he isn't to your tastes, he does not compare to the likes of Bolsonaro. That's true - but I'm glad the left wing candidate won. And Kirschner wasn't perfect but Argentina has some of the best legislation relating to LGBT rights in the world. Something forgot to mention- and this is forgotten in much of the press- is that Fernandez is actually to the right of Kirchner. He quit many years ago and attacked her from the Right. I wonder who gets most from this cynical tie-up! |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 18, 2019 15:10:25 GMT
That's true - but I'm glad the left wing candidate won. And Kirschner wasn't perfect but Argentina has some of the best legislation relating to LGBT rights in the world. Something forgot to mention- and this is forgotten in much of the press- is that Fernandez is actually to the right of Kirchner. He quit many years ago and attacked her from the Right. I wonder who gets most from this cynical tie-up! I agree - he is more fiscally conservative- but he is socially progressive. I think he is to the left of Macri though who is a hard line monetarist. I am a Kirchner fam though. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Aug 18, 2019 15:23:59 GMT
Something forgot to mention- and this is forgotten in much of the press- is that Fernandez is actually to the right of Kirchner. He quit many years ago and attacked her from the Right. I wonder who gets most from this cynical tie-up! I agree - he is more fiscally conservative- but he is socially progressive. I think he is to the left of Macri though who is a hard line monetarist. I am a Kirchner fam though. I find some of her policies palatable, but the sponsorship of violent thuggery and quite possibly murder, and the involvement in some nepotism and clientelism that is dreadful by even Argentine standards, are just beyond the Pale for me. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 18, 2019 15:27:37 GMT
I agree - he is more fiscally conservative- but he is socially progressive. I think he is to the left of Macri though who is a hard line monetarist. I am a Kirchner fam though. I find some of her policies palatable, but the sponsorship of violent thuggery and quite possibly murder, and the involvement in some nepotism and clientelism that is dreadful by even Argentine standards, are just beyond the Pale for me. I don't think we can pretend she's not Argentinian. But you know the score - every so often Argentina elects the non Peronist, then they bugger everything up and the Peronists get back in. At least the left wing Peronists do try and get on with things and wont be bossed around. I know the LGBT policies are a niche area but to have a country with Argentina's macho tradion adopt such forward looking polucues did show determination. |
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Post by thedeadflagblues on Aug 18, 2019 18:51:42 GMT
While I loathe Peronism, I find it amusing that exponents of liberalism are eager to cite Argentina's economic trajectory as a parable for the evils of heterodoxy. Argentina's golden years were largely based on its export of salted beef, mutton and wool when it was an appendage of the British Empire. In its time, this was a revolutionary development, based on advances in logistics. The emergence of the steamship and the railroad changed everything. Nevertheless, looking back, we find scant cases of countries that have remained relatively economically prosperous on the basis of the sale of commodities unless they have vast amounts of petroleum under their feet. Australia is an exception, as is New Zealand, one can make the case that this was true of Canada before the discovery of oil there.
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Post by Andrew_S on Aug 18, 2019 20:43:44 GMT
I wonder how many English people accidentally on purpose pretend to be Scottish or Welsh when visiting Argentina.
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