johng
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Post by johng on Apr 26, 2021 14:16:14 GMT
Why do pollsters still push for UKIP? So odd. The strange thing is that in a few recent polls UKIP have come out ahead of REFUK. I think voters are still getting mixed up between those two parties. It was a big mistake for Brexit Party to change their name to ReformUK. Their numbers only started to fall into low single digits when they changed their name. Without Farage's pull, I think many former supporters/ voters don't realise.
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Apr 26, 2021 14:27:49 GMT
The strange thing is that in a few recent polls UKIP have come out ahead of REFUK. I think voters are still getting mixed up between those two parties. It was a big mistake for Brexit Party to change their name to ReformUK. Their numbers only started to fall into low single digits when they changed their name. With Farage's pull, I think many former supporters/ voters don't realise. Completely agree, it’s just not clear to the average voter what the Reform Party even is. ‘The Brexit Party’ may sound increasingly outdated, but people at least knew what they stood for and that it was a Nigel Farage thing.
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Post by andrew111 on Apr 26, 2021 22:53:06 GMT
It was a big mistake for Brexit Party to change their name to ReformUK. Their numbers only started to fall into low single digits when they changed their name. With Farage's pull, I think many former supporters/ voters don't realise. Completely agree, it’s just not clear to the average voter what the Reform Party even is. ‘The Brexit Party’ may sound increasingly outdated, but people at least knew what they stood for and that it was a Nigel Farage thing. I think that given that the Unionists still march about the Battle of the Boyne, the Brexit Party could have carried on with the name of the "great triumph" for a long while yet.
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Post by hullenedge on Jun 7, 2021 8:31:08 GMT
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Post by lackeroftalent on Jun 7, 2021 16:17:42 GMT
8% missing from this. Why not include SNP, PC, Reform Party? I assume the SNP gets left off the quoted figures since they only stand in Scotland but given your question is raised every time it might well help to include them. SNP 5% PC 1% Reform 0% An independent 1% Somebody else 1%
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Jun 8, 2021 10:02:56 GMT
Starmer has got the same -29% net satisfaction rating as Corbyn 14 months in. I’m not saying he’s in trouble, but...
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 8, 2021 10:45:13 GMT
Corbyn came back from that, even if it was only ultimately temporary. Starmer could do the same, but needs to cut the unforced own goals out first.
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 8, 2021 11:06:51 GMT
Corbyn came back from that, even if it was only ultimately temporary. Starmer could do the same, but needs to cut the unforced own goals out first. As I posted on the other thread.... When you consider the sort of press campaign against Corbyn, and indeed, the organised campaign against him within his own party, including the majority of 'Labour' MP's, Starmer's ratings are really notably dreadful. This was supposedly the leader who could bring the party together and be 20% ahead in the opinion polls. Obviously I've never rated Starmer and I didn't vote for him as party leader, but I do think that those who did have got to stop making excuses. Starmer has been given a more than easy ride by the media (that sycophantic interview with Morgan was laughable) and has said nothing at all to challenge the status quo, which is supposedly the way to victory, according to the centrists. Why isn't it working?
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Post by justin124 on Jun 8, 2021 11:32:49 GMT
My growing fear is that Starmer lacks a political brain. He appears to be psephologically autistic.
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Post by matureleft on Jun 8, 2021 11:41:44 GMT
My growing fear is that Starmer lacks a political brain. He appears to be psephologically autistic. He wouldn't be the first able man who has struggled to transition from a successful career into politics. He hasn't, I think, chosen a good leadership team arguably because he doesn't really know what he needs. As I always say, I didn't vote for him first choice...
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 8, 2021 11:51:52 GMT
My growing fear is that Starmer lacks a political brain. He appears to be psephologically autistic. He wouldn't be the first able man who has struggled to transition from a successful career into politics. He hasn't, I think, chosen a good leadership team arguably because he doesn't really know what he needs. As I always say, I didn't vote for him first choice... I did, but otherwise its hard to disagree. One maybe significant thing, even if little noticed at the time, is that some people behind his highly effective leadership campaign didn't stay on afterwards.
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Post by justin124 on Jun 8, 2021 11:56:13 GMT
My growing fear is that Starmer lacks a political brain. He appears to be psephologically autistic. He wouldn't be the first able man who has struggled to transition from a successful career into politics. He hasn't, I think, chosen a good leadership team arguably because he doesn't really know what he needs. As I always say, I didn't vote for him first choice... I did vote for him as first choice. The only better candidate - had she made it to the final stage - would have been Emily Thornberry.I cannot recall a party leader - not even IDS - who appears to lack some of the key core skills required of the role. Throwing away Labour-held seats at avoidable by elections is frankly unforgiveable. If Batley&Spen is lost, he needs to be removed simply to prevent him doing further damage.
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 8, 2021 12:07:08 GMT
He wouldn't be the first able man who has struggled to transition from a successful career into politics. He hasn't, I think, chosen a good leadership team arguably because he doesn't really know what he needs. As I always say, I didn't vote for him first choice... I did, but otherwise its hard to disagree. One maybe significant thing, even if little noticed at the time, is that some people behind his highly effective leadership campaign didn't stay on afterwards. Who were you thinking of? Certainly he doesn't appear to have been very good at maintaining a broad-based team, and putting Evans in place has proved to be a major mistake, as he can only relate to the hard right of the party.
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 8, 2021 12:08:37 GMT
My growing fear is that Starmer lacks a political brain. He appears to be psephologically autistic. He wouldn't be the first able man who has struggled to transition from a successful career into politics. He hasn't, I think, chosen a good leadership team arguably because he doesn't really know what he needs. As I always say, I didn't vote for him first choice... Very true. On either side of the fence, Stuart Holland and Archie Norman are two good examples - both really strong track records as an academic and economist, and a businessman respectively, but neither enjoyed their time in the House.
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Post by matureleft on Jun 8, 2021 12:12:21 GMT
He wouldn't be the first able man who has struggled to transition from a successful career into politics. He hasn't, I think, chosen a good leadership team arguably because he doesn't really know what he needs. As I always say, I didn't vote for him first choice... I did vote for him as first choice. The only better candidate - had she made it to the final stage - would have been Emily Thornberry.I cannot recall a party leader - not even IDS - who appears to lack some of the key core skills required of the role. Throwing away Labour-held seats at avoidable by elections is frankly unforgiveable. If Batley&Spen is lost, he needs to be removed simply to prevent him doing further damage. I'm not a Thornberry fan. Her white van silliness displayed a rather childish arrogance, and her media style isn't (I think) particularly attractive to voters we need to persuade. But she's a clever parliamentary operator. In a field that, not for the first time in Labour leadership elections (!) left me unsatisfied, I voted for Nandy.
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Post by justin124 on Jun 8, 2021 12:21:43 GMT
I did vote for him as first choice. The only better candidate - had she made it to the final stage - would have been Emily Thornberry.I cannot recall a party leader - not even IDS - who appears to lack some of the key core skills required of the role. Throwing away Labour-held seats at avoidable by elections is frankly unforgiveable. If Batley&Spen is lost, he needs to be removed simply to prevent him doing further damage. I'm not a Thornberry fan. Her white van silliness displayed a rather childish arrogance, and her media style isn't (I think) particularly attractive to voters we need to persuade. But she's a clever parliamentary operator. In a field that, not for the first time in Labour leadership elections (!) left me unsatisfied, I voted for Nandy. I would be happier with Hilary Benn - but he genuinely does not appear at all interested.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 8, 2021 12:25:11 GMT
Nandy is arguably one of the few Labour front benchers who have impressed under Starmer. She would certainly be in a strong position were there a leadership vacancy soon.
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Post by justin124 on Jun 8, 2021 12:38:45 GMT
I am not persuaded that Nandy looks the part. She lacks the natural authority required. Bring back Ed Milliband? Far from ideal , but he does have experience and antennae.Yvette Cooper?
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 8, 2021 12:43:37 GMT
I did vote for him as first choice. The only better candidate - had she made it to the final stage - would have been Emily Thornberry.I cannot recall a party leader - not even IDS - who appears to lack some of the key core skills required of the role. Throwing away Labour-held seats at avoidable by elections is frankly unforgiveable. If Batley&Spen is lost, he needs to be removed simply to prevent him doing further damage. I'm not a Thornberry fan. Her white van silliness displayed a rather childish arrogance, and her media style isn't (I think) particularly attractive to voters we need to persuade. But she's a clever parliamentary operator. In a field that, not for the first time in Labour leadership elections (!) left me unsatisfied, I voted for Nandy. I had decided to vote for Long-Bailey, but a couple of days before the final nominations were announced , decided to vote for Thornberry instead, though I didn't tell anyone, and in the end it was academic as she didn't make the cut. The white van incident was largely something which only those over-sensitive about upsetting the proles (inevitably the middle classes) bothered about. There's actually not a huge number in the white-van-man demographic, and they are largely working class Tories. I actually do think her media style works well, as she is combative and actually comes over as someone quite normal who you'd imagine likes a drink and a dirty joke! I mean, she's hardly Harriet Harman? There is this myth that working class voters are put off by upper middle class accents - which hardly explains Johnson's success. But you are right about parliament. Johnson would have found her very hard to deal with her, and when she stood in for JC at PMQT, she was excellent. There are two sorts of lawyers. The detail men, who are good at putting together a case. And the actors, who can argue the case and add a bit of star quality. Starmer is the former, Thornberry the latter. The other point is that she would have been a lot more effective in keeping the party together, because she is not definitively on the right or the left of the party, and would have a better chance of keeping people on board.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 8, 2021 12:47:29 GMT
I am not persuaded that Nandy looks the part. She lacks the natural authority required. Bring back Ed Milliband? Far from ideal , but he does have experience and antennae.Yvette Cooper? Benn and Cooper both keep getting mentioned on pure "vibes" basically. Well, that's a major reason why we got Starmer!
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