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Post by janwhitby on Aug 3, 2019 12:49:17 GMT
Will you also ask why he did not say the numbers in Gaelic, or Cornish? No Then why not take that as your answer about speaking in English? When in rome.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Aug 3, 2019 13:18:38 GMT
Then why not take that as your answer about speaking in English? When in rome. Over 80% of the population of this seat speak English as a first language
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Post by johnloony on Aug 3, 2019 13:54:09 GMT
Then why not take that as your answer about speaking in English? When in rome. Because it is normal practice in public affairs, such as the process of declaring election results, to use both languages (Welsh and English). It wasn't very long ago that an election result in a predominantly English-speaking part of Wales would be declared in English only, and not Welsh. And I don't see what "rome" (sic) has got to do with anything.
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Post by yellowperil on Aug 3, 2019 14:24:01 GMT
Then why not take that as your answer about speaking in English? When in rome. Because it is normal practice in public affairs, such as the process of declaring election results, to use both languages (Welsh and English). It wasn't very long ago that an election result in a predominantly English-speaking part of Wales would be declared in English only, and not Welsh. And I don't see what "rome" (sic) has got to do with anything. Obviously she wanted it read in Italian.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 3, 2019 19:14:29 GMT
And why on earth would he have done that? and why on earth would be not ask for numbers in other languages indigenous to the UK, if he was not just promoting imperialism by forcing English on the Welsh? Would you be prepared to rephrase the sentence in such a way that we are able to understand it? A fyddech yn barod I aildrefnu y brawddeg er mwyn in ni eu ddeallt?
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Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 3, 2019 19:16:05 GMT
Because it is normal practice in public affairs, such as the process of declaring election results, to use both languages (Welsh and English). It wasn't very long ago that an election result in a predominantly English-speaking part of Wales would be declared in English only, and not Welsh. And I don't see what "rome" (sic) has got to do with anything. Obviously she wanted it read in Italian. Or Latin? Neu Lladin?
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Post by janwhitby on Aug 4, 2019 9:59:23 GMT
Then why not take that as your answer about speaking in English? When in rome. Over 80% of the population of this seat speak English as a first language The reason for this is a history of cultural genocide against Welsh people. If we expect 80% of people in some London constituencies with English as a second language to learn and speak English then English people can learn Welsh.
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Post by janwhitby on Aug 4, 2019 10:02:23 GMT
Then why not take that as your answer about speaking in English? When in rome. Because it is normal practice in public affairs, such as the process of declaring election results, to use both languages (Welsh and English). It wasn't very long ago that an election result in a predominantly English-speaking part of Wales would be declared in English only, and not Welsh. And I don't see what "rome" (sic) has got to do with anything. It wasn't long ago (my great grandparents generation), when they only spoke Welsh, their parents only spoke Welsh but were punished in school and discriminated against for speaking it. Their generation and those before it, in Wales were systematically targeted by the English. When in Rome, do as the roman's do. When in Wales, learn to speak Welsh, the era of the colonies is over.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Aug 4, 2019 10:06:53 GMT
That really isn't true at all, and, in any event, large parts of this constituency were exclusively Anglophone even before the 19th century.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Aug 4, 2019 10:19:10 GMT
I think there’s a bit of point missing coming in here. It’s not the announcing in Welsh that’s at issue, most if not all Welsh constituencies do that, but it was the inconsistency of giving the Party name in both Welsh and English, and the figures for UKIP and the MRLP in both, but not the important figures for the Conservatives and LDs (and I suppose whichever end of that spectrum you put Labour).
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Aug 4, 2019 10:27:48 GMT
That really isn't true at all, and, in any event, large parts of this constituency were exclusively Anglophone even before the 19th century. The actual requirements of the people who actually live in the constituency have very little to do with it once a nationalist is off on a grievance.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Aug 4, 2019 10:29:31 GMT
I think there’s a bit of point missing coming in here. It’s not the announcing in Welsh that’s at issue, most if not all Welsh constituencies do that, but it was the inconsistency of giving the Party name in both Welsh and English, and the figures for UKIP and the MRLP in both, but not the important figures for the Conservatives and LDs (and I suppose whichever end of that spectrum you put Labour). As johnloony made perfectly clear in his post.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Aug 4, 2019 10:36:23 GMT
I think there’s a bit of point missing coming in here. It’s not the announcing in Welsh that’s at issue, most if not all Welsh constituencies do that, but it was the inconsistency of giving the Party name in both Welsh and English, and the figures for UKIP and the MRLP in both, but not the important figures for the Conservatives and LDs (and I suppose whichever end of that spectrum you put Labour). As johnloony made perfectly clear in his post. We may be looking at different posts but I can’t see John mentioning the mixed delivery on the night which was what I was trying to get across without commenting on the merits or history of the Welsh language.
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Post by andrew111 on Aug 4, 2019 10:46:10 GMT
As johnloony made perfectly clear in his post. We may be looking at different posts but I can’t see John mentioning the mixed delivery on the night which was what I was trying to get across without commenting on the merits or history of the Welsh language. John made it pretty clear that if he had been expecting the numbers to be read out only in Welsh that would not have been a problem for him in particular. It was a problem for me and many other people interested in the result though. On the more general point, this is an election to the UK parliament, and in Welsh constituencies the result is supposed to be announced in both Welsh and English. This respects the linguistic diversity in Wales and also makes sure that as many people as possible can understand it.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Aug 4, 2019 10:53:46 GMT
As johnloony made perfectly clear in his post. We may be looking at different posts but I can’t see John mentioning the mixed delivery on the night which was what I was trying to get across without commenting on the merits or history of the Welsh language. and As you say, the history of the Welsh language has little to do with it, other than to note that the constituency is largely anglophone (rather nicely illustrated by one of Sibboleth's pretty maps somewhere)
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Post by andrew111 on Aug 4, 2019 10:53:52 GMT
There was a time when more or less everyone in Britain spoke one of the versions of Gaelic. It is also a long time since the majority of people in the Welsh borders spoke Welsh. There are also many people who consider themselves 100% Welsh but do not speak Welsh. The imposition of linguistic purity is seldom a good idea, whichever direction it comes from.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Aug 4, 2019 11:01:13 GMT
We may be looking at different posts but I can’t see John mentioning the mixed delivery on the night which was what I was trying to get across without commenting on the merits or history of the Welsh language. John made it pretty clear that if he had been expecting the numbers to be read out only in Welsh that would not have been a problem for him in particular. It was a problem for me and many other people interested in the result though. On the more general point, this is an election to the UK parliament, and in Welsh constituencies the result is supposed to be announced in both Welsh and English. This respects the linguistic diversity in Wales and also makes sure that as many people as possible can understand it. We’ve interpreted that post slightly differently, but I’m not disagreeing. I wholeheartedly agree with your second paragraph and would add that the RO should also have been mindful of the national interest in the result and that he was “performing” to an audience wider than the B&R community.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Aug 4, 2019 11:04:37 GMT
We may be looking at different posts but I can’t see John mentioning the mixed delivery on the night which was what I was trying to get across without commenting on the merits or history of the Welsh language. and As you say, the history of the Welsh language has little to do with it, other than to note that the constituency is largely anglophone (rather nicely illustrated by one of Sibboleth's pretty maps somewhere) I remember an interview with the singer Duffy in which she said after her parents marriage broke up she’d gone to live with her dad in that part of Wales but ran away back to her mum in North Wales because she couldn’t cope with nobody speaking Welsh in her dad’s community.
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Post by andrew111 on Aug 4, 2019 12:31:21 GMT
John made it pretty clear that if he had been expecting the numbers to be read out only in Welsh that would not have been a problem for him in particular. It was a problem for me and many other people interested in the result though. On the more general point, this is an election to the UK parliament, and in Welsh constituencies the result is supposed to be announced in both Welsh and English. This respects the linguistic diversity in Wales and also makes sure that as many people as possible can understand it. We’ve interpreted that post slightly differently, but I’m not disagreeing. I wholeheartedly agree with your second paragraph and would add that the RO should also have been mindful of the national interest in the result and that he was “performing” to an audience wider than the B&R community. I think the problem was that the High Sheriff deciding to take the limelight rather than delegating it to someone competent. He then froze in the headlights of having to speak Welsh. I am sure he did not deliberately fail to announce the first few totals in English given that he changed to English for UKIP and the loonies..
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Aug 4, 2019 12:41:49 GMT
We’ve interpreted that post slightly differently, but I’m not disagreeing. I wholeheartedly agree with your second paragraph and would add that the RO should also have been mindful of the national interest in the result and that he was “performing” to an audience wider than the B&R community. I think the problem was that the High Sheriff deciding to take the limelight rather than delegating it to someone competent. He then froze in the headlights of having to speak Welsh. I am sure he did not deliberately fail to announce the first few totals in English given that he changed to English for UKIP and the loonies.. I agree, and I think the council CEO or somebody tried to tell him as he paused and looked to his left after reading the first candidate as if someone was signalling to him but he didn’t register it. Although according to this Returning Officer is one of his few duties, and his professional resume wouldn’t suggest someone unused to public speaking www.countytimes.co.uk/news/17582534.david-lloyd-peate-installed-as-new-high-sheriff-of-powys/
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