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Post by middleenglander on Dec 24, 2018 0:36:23 GMT
There have been 271 by-elections for 272 seats during 2018 with 76 seats (28%) changing hands. The results can be summarised by: Party | Candidates | Defended | Retained | Gained | Lost | Won | retention rate | Conservative | 269 | 132 | 98 | 21 | 34 | 119 | 74% | Labour | 245 | 85 | 72 | 11 | 13 | 83 | 85% | Liberal Democrat | 212 | 25 | 17 | 24 | 8 | 41 | 68% | SNP | 10 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 4 | 67% | Plaid Cymru | 2 | 1 | 1 |
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| 1 | 100% | Green | 127 | 1 |
| 2 | 1 | 2 | 0% | UKIP | 58 | 8 |
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| 8 |
| 0% | Independent ^ | 73 | 10 | 2 | 11 | 8 | 13 | 20% | Localist ^^ | 22 | 7 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 8 | 57% | No Description | 5 |
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| Other | 18 |
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| Total | 1,041 | 272 | 196 | 76 | 76 | 272 | 72% |
^ 73 Independent candidates contested 63 by-elections ^^ Active for Plymouth (1), Ashfield Independent (1), Ashford Independent (1), Epsom & Ewell Residents (2), Farnham Residents (1), Farnworth & Kearsley Residents (1), Harlow Alliance (2), Independent - Save Our Stretton (1), Lincolnshire Independent (4), Loughton Residents (1), Nottingham Independent (1), Our West Lancashire (1), Stratford First (1), Thurrock Independent (1), Yorkshire (3) ^^^ Blue Revolution (1), BNP (2), Bus Pass Elvis (2), Christian Peoples (1), Democrats & Veterans (2), English Democrat (1), For Britain (1), Libertarian (2), National Flood Prevention (1), Something New (1), Women's equality (4) At the May annual elections there were 41 "double" elections where a by-election was run along with the annual election. The conventions used above were: * where there were 2 candidates for a party then 1 was for the annual election and 1 for the by-election, where only 1 that was for the annual election and * the highest placed elected candidate won the annual election and the second placed the by-election. Conservatives had candidates for 99% of the 272 seats, Labour 90%, Liberal Democrats 78%, Green 47% and UKIP 21%. - nearly 49% of the vacancies were Conservative seats, 31% Labour, 9% Liberal Democrats, 4% Independents, 3% UKIP, 3% Localists and 2% others. Conservatives gained 21 seats and lost 34, a net loss of 13- gained 4 seats from Labour, 6 from Liberal Democrats, 5 from UKIP, 5 from Independents and 1 from Localist whilst - losing 7 to Labour, 18 to Liberal Democrats, 6 to Independents, 1 each to Green, Localists and No Description. Labour gained 11 seats and lost 13, a net loss of 2- gained 7 seats from Conservatives, 1 from Liberal Democrat, 1 Green and 2 UKIP whilst - losing 4 to Conservative, 2 to Liberal Democrats, 4 to Independents, 2 to Localists and 1 SNP Liberal Democrats gained 24 seats and lost 8, a net gain of 16
- gained 18 seats from Conservatives, 2 from Labour and 1 each from Independent, Localist, SNP and UKIP but - lost 6 to Conservatives, 1 to Labour and 1 to SNP SNP gained 1 seat from both Labour and Liberal Democrat but lost 1 to Liberal Democrats, a net gain of 1 Greens gained 1 from Conservatives and 1 from an Independent whilst losing 1 to Labour, a net gain of 1UKIP lost 5 seats to Conservatives, 2 to Labour and 1 to Liberal Democrats, a loss of 8Independents gained 11 seats and lost 8, a net gain of 3
- gained 6 seats from Conservatives, 4 from Labour and 1 from a Localist whilst - losing 5 to Conservatives and 1 each to Liberal Democrat, Localist and Green Localists gained 4 seats and lost 3, a net gain of 1 - gained 1 seat from Conservative, 2 from Labour, and 1 from Independent but - lost 1 seat each to Conservative, Liberal Democrat and Independent No Description gained 1 seat from Conservative
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Post by greenchristian on Dec 24, 2018 8:47:00 GMT
There have been 271 by-elections for 272 seats during 2018 with 76 seats (28%) changing hands. Which was the one seat that had two by-elections, then?
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Post by middleenglander on Dec 24, 2018 8:51:23 GMT
There have been 271 by-elections for 272 seats during 2018 with 76 seats (28%) changing hands. Which was the one seat that had two by-elections, then? Lancaster, University & Scotforth Rural on 17 May. One Labour defence and 1 Green, although former Councillor was sitting as Labour.
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Post by yellowperil on Dec 24, 2018 10:15:03 GMT
Work In ProgressSo how did 2018 by-elections compare with recent years? Year | England | England | Scotland | Scotland | Wales | Wales | GB total | GB total |
| seats contested | changed | seats contested | changed | seats contested | changed | seats contested | changed | 2018 | 258 | 26% | 9 | 56% | 5 | 60% | 272 | 28% | 2017 | 337 | 29% | 8 | 38% | 3 | 33% | 348 | 29% | 2016 | 279 | 29% | 18 | 72% | 23 | 30% | 320 | 32% | 2015 | 184 | 22% | 38 | 29% | 29 | 24% | 251 | 24% | 2014 | 239 | 31% | 17 | 41% | 15 | 27% | 271 | 31% | 2013 | 310 | 29% | 14 | 43% | 13 | 8% | 337 | 29% | 2012 | 232 | 25% | 3 | 100% | 8 | 63% | 243 | 27% | 2011 | 162 | 28% | 18 | 44% | 12 | 75% | 192 | 32% | 2010 | 261 | 30% | 4 | 25% | 16 | 38% | 281 | 31% |
Presumably the apparent higher volatility in Scotland is down the fact that in effect a by-election there is fought under a different electoral system compared to the main elections?
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,800
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Post by john07 on Dec 24, 2018 10:49:36 GMT
The results in Scotland can be totally random and have nothing to do with prevailing opinion.
It’s all down to which councillors resign/die and who was the leading party for the division in question.
Best not to try and judge anything from the results.
In fact it is arguable that there should not be AV by-elections in STV divisions.
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Post by middleenglander on Dec 24, 2018 11:00:46 GMT
The results in Scotland can be totally random and have nothing to do with prevailing opinion. It’s all down to which councillors resign/die and who was the leading party for the division in question. Best not to try and judge anything from the results. In fact it is arguable that there should not be AV by-elections in STV divisions. Over the 9 years the number of Scottish seats changing hands averaged 44%, probably due to the electoral system, whilst in Wales the average was 35%, a fair number of single member, small electorate seats which tend to change hands more readily.
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Post by middleenglander on Dec 24, 2018 17:01:04 GMT
So how did 2018 by-elections compare with recent years? Year | England | England | Scotland | Scotland | Wales | Wales | GB total | GB total |
| seats contested | changed | seats contested | changed | seats contested | changed | seats contested | changed | 2018 | 258 | 26% | 9 | 56% | 5 | 60% | 272 | 28% | 2017 | 337 | 29% | 8 | 38% | 3 | 33% | 348 | 29% | 2016 | 279 | 29% | 18 | 72% | 23 | 30% | 320 | 32% | 2015 | 184 | 22% | 38 | 29% | 29 | 24% | 251 | 24% | 2014 | 239 | 31% | 17 | 41% | 15 | 27% | 271 | 31% | 2013 | 310 | 29% | 14 | 43% | 13 | 8% | 337 | 29% | 2012 | 232 | 25% | 3 | 100% | 8 | 63% | 243 | 27% | 2011 | 162 | 28% | 18 | 44% | 12 | 75% | 192 | 32% | 2010 | 261 | 30% | 4 | 25% | 16 | 38% | 281 | 31% |
The number of by-elections vary with the electoral cycle as well be being affected by former Councillors resigning after becoming MPs. The number changing hands however remains fairly constant at around 30%, a figure that goes back beyond 2010. Comparing just England in 2018 with 2010 and 2014, the same stage of the electoral cycle, we have:
| 2018 | 2018 | 2018 | 2014 | 2014 | 2014 | 2010 | 2010 | 2010 |
| seats contested | changed hands | changed | seats contested | changed hands | changed | seats contested | changed hands | changed | January to April
| 71 | 28 | 39% | 46 | 15 | 33% | 41 | 18 | 44% | May election - single elections | 15 | 4 | 27% | 30
| 6 | 20% | 38 | 10 | 26% | May election - double elections | 41 | 5 | 12% | 40 | 11 | 28% | 45 | 10 | 22% | Rest of May to August | 63 | 19 | 30% | 44 | 17 | 39% | 48 | 18 | 38% | September & October | 36 | 7 | 19% | 43 | 15 | 35% | 58 | 13 | 22% | November & December | 32 | 5 | 16% | 36 | 9 | 25% | 31
| 10 | 32% | Total | 258 | 68 | 26% | 239 | 73 | 31% | 261 | 79 | 30% |
The number of seats contested is similar across the three years as is the proportion changing hands apart from possibly the last quarter of 2018. Furthermore the profile of elections occurring across the year is not dissimilar, with nearly half the occurring before or during the annual elections in May.
Finally, how do the net gains / losses, including for Scotland and Wales, compare with previous years?
| Conservative | Labour | Liberal Democrats | Green | UKIP | Independent | Localist | SNP / Plaid Cymru | Other | 2018 | -13 | -2 | +16 | +1 | -8 | +3 | +1 | +1 | +1 | 2017 | -13 | -1 | +20 | +6 | -13 | -5 | +5 | 0 | +1 | 2016 | -32 | -7 | +28 | +1 | -3 | +3 | +4 | +4 | +2 | 2015 | +16 | -3 | 0 | -2 | -10 | -2 | -4 | +4 | +1 | 2014 | -10 | 0 | +6 | +3 | +10 | -8 | 0 | +1 | -2 | 2013 | -30 | +21 | -4 | -2 | +12 | +5 | +3 | -6 | +1 | 2012 | -15 | +15 | +2 | 0 | -2 | -1 | +1 | 0 | 0 | 2011 | -17 | +27 | -7 | +1 | 0 | -5 | 0 | +2 | -1 | 2010 | -24 | +30 | +4 | 0 | 0 | -12 | +1 | +1 | 0 |
Thus 2018 was not significantly different to 2017. Although the Labour net losses were only small, the party has not had net gains since 2013.
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Dec 25, 2018 0:49:54 GMT
There have been 271 by-elections for 272 seats during 2018 with 76 seats (28%) changing hands. Which was the one seat that had two by-elections, then? If there have been 271 by-elections for 272 seats, then it is logical to ask "Which was the one by-election that had two seats, then?", but not the other way round.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2018 14:50:48 GMT
In fact it is arguable that there should not be AV by-elections in STV divisions. It is arguable that we shouldn’t be lumbered with this half baked electoral system at all.
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john07
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Post by john07 on Dec 25, 2018 20:07:43 GMT
In fact it is arguable that there should not be AV by-elections in STV divisions. It is arguable that we shouldn’t be lumbered with this half baked electoral system at all. Indeed it would remove a large number of Conservative Councillors throughout Scotland.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2018 20:50:38 GMT
It is arguable that we shouldn’t be lumbered with this half baked electoral system at all. Indeed it would remove a large number of Conservative Councillors throughout Scotland. Following your pitiful drubbing and receiving the most votes in exactly one council at the last locals i really think it would worry your lot more.
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Post by andrew111 on Dec 26, 2018 12:34:12 GMT
In fact it is arguable that there should not be AV by-elections in STV divisions. It is arguable that we shouldn’t be lumbered with this half baked electoral system at all. Getting rid of a fair voting system that gives representation to the widest range of people is exactly what I would expect from Tories (and sadly also Labour, most of the time) On the subject of AV for by-elections, it is the best system available when only one person is elected (and would be better in England too!). The problem in analysing the results lies in comparison with which councillor is being replaced. A more sensible comparison if you want to see how different Parties are doing is with the votes cast for each Party in the last normal election. That applies under any voting system.
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Post by andrew111 on Dec 26, 2018 12:58:10 GMT
So, looking long term do we conclude that in the coalition years the Lib Dems took seats from Tories and lost them to Labour? And that this source of gains for Labour dried up in 2015? Since when the Lib Dems have continued gaining from the Tories but stopped losing to Labour and indeed gaining a little?
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Post by finsobruce on Dec 26, 2018 13:12:16 GMT
It is arguable that we shouldn’t be lumbered with this half baked electoral system at all. Getting rid of a fair voting system that gives representation to the widest range of people is exactly what I would expect from Tories (and sadly also Labour, most of the time) Apart from when we actually introduced it in Scotland, of course. If the Tories want to be daft enough to get rid of a system that saved their bacon north of the border that's up to them. But I somehow don't think they will. I'd be very pleased if it was introduced for local elections in England as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2018 17:11:11 GMT
It is arguable that we shouldn’t be lumbered with this half baked electoral system at all. Getting rid of a fair voting system that gives representation to the widest range of people is exactly what I would expect from Tories (and sadly also Labour, most of the time) On the subject of AV for by-elections, it is the best system available when only one person is elected (and would be better in England too!). The problem in analysing the results lies in comparison with which councillor is being replaced. A more sensible comparison if you want to see how different Parties are doing is with the votes cast for each Party in the last normal election. That applies under any voting system. I’m sure I have clashed with you over this before so I will keep it brief. There is no system fairer than one vote for all electors, and the candidate with the most votes is elected. Very few people understand STV which is why there are always many spoilt ballots. Under FPTP there is a clear connection between the electorate and their representatives.
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Post by mattb on Dec 26, 2018 18:23:11 GMT
There is no system fairer than one vote for all electors, and the candidate with the most votes is elected. Very few people understand STV which is why there are always many spoilt ballots. Under FPTP there is a clear connection between the electorate and their representatives. erm … STV (Single Transferrable Vote) is by definition "one vote for all electors". Do you have any evidence that there are "always many spoilt ballots"? I don't think the facts support that?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2018 18:43:05 GMT
There is no system fairer than one vote for all electors, and the candidate with the most votes is elected. Very few people understand STV which is why there are always many spoilt ballots. Under FPTP there is a clear connection between the electorate and their representatives. erm … STV (Single Transferrable Vote) is by definition "one vote for all electors". Do you have any evidence that there are "always many spoilt ballots"? I don't think the facts support that? I think you know exactly what I mean and are splitting hairs. And yes, the Electoral Commissions report on the 2017 local elections support that. Indeed, there was an increase in the number of spoilt ballots from 2012.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2018 19:45:43 GMT
I’m sure I have clashed with you over this before so I will keep it brief. There is no system fairer than one vote for all electors, and the candidate with the most votes is elected. Very few people understand STV which is why there are always many spoilt ballots. Under FPTP there is a clear connection between the electorate and their representatives. I feel this is dishonest. I get that some people prefer FPTP on ideological grounds (although perhaps unsurprisingly, I disagree), but I think your points are rather poor. There is no system fairer than one vote for all electorsFairly intuitive, but problematic for several reasons: 1. STV can definitely be considered as a 1 person 1 vote system. That's how it works and I know you're well aware of that fact. The fact that multiple preferences can be given doesn't change that. The same can be said of List PR, or Alternative Vote. 2. Not all plurality voting systems used in this country apply that principle anyway. Lots of council elections in England & Wales see voters getting to cast multiple votes (bloc voting). 3. Whilst intuitive, I don't think it's an all-important rule. Equal number of votes for each voter makes sense - e.g. a cumulative voting system where voters can cast a fixed max number of votes between multiple parties, or that voters can vote once in both rounds of a two-round system. and the candidate with the most votes is elected.
Why is this a fair thing if that candidate does not get more than half of the votes? How can it legitimately be said that this person is the best single person to represent the views of their electorate? Even with a majority of votes - is having a single representative for an electorate the fairest option? I don't think so. Plus List PR broadly applies this principle anyway, again it's not exclusive to FPTP. Very few people understand STV which is why there are always many spoilt ballots.
I don't think this is necessarily a bad point but I feel it's misguided. Firstly, I think most voters understand it to a sufficient extent. Nonetheless the fact that a sizable proportion of the electorate don't shouldn't be ignored. However I think this problem is partly because how novel the system is in Scotland (this isn't anywhere near as much as an issue in NI, Ireland, Australia, Malta et al.) and partly because of the confusion with the number of different systems used there. I also understand that while the number of spoilt ballots is higher than usual, the main issue is voters casting votes with just a single preference. When voters do this, the system degenerates to 'Single Non-Transferable Vote', which often leads to popular candidates getting a huge surplus of votes which then can't be transferred to similar candidates - which isn't good for anyone. Australia's Group Voting Ticket averts this problem - voters can vote specifically for individuals if they wish, or they can vote for party lists - when voters cast just a single preference then, the system degenerates to List PR. Finally, list systems are very, very simple to understand. Under FPTP there is a clear connection between the electorate and their representatives. I genuinely don't see how this isn't the case with STV, AV, MMP etc.; I recognise that it is an issue with MEPs which represent very large regions (with no 'constituency MEPs' beneath them). Ultimately, FPTP reduces choice to whoever the Blues have put up or whoever the Reds have put up, forcing voters to choose between two choices which they may not really like at all. How is that fair? For example, my father is a lifelong Conservative voter, who voted to remain and felt we shouldn't have had the referendum in the first place, and supports the Withdrawal Agreement and the current Premiership. Yet his MP is an ERG-er who voted to oust the PM. What choice does that leave him? One of the most common complaints about List PR is that it reduces voters' choices in individuals (despite open list systems existing). FPTP is simply a closed list system with a list of length 1. One of the main issues with STV is voters casting a single preference. In FPTP, doing so is mandatory.
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Post by andrew111 on Dec 28, 2018 9:10:03 GMT
Getting rid of a fair voting system that gives representation to the widest range of people is exactly what I would expect from Tories (and sadly also Labour, most of the time) On the subject of AV for by-elections, it is the best system available when only one person is elected (and would be better in England too!). The problem in analysing the results lies in comparison with which councillor is being replaced. A more sensible comparison if you want to see how different Parties are doing is with the votes cast for each Party in the last normal election. That applies under any voting system. I’m sure I have clashed with you over this before so I will keep it brief. There is no system fairer than one vote for all electors, and the candidate with the most votes is elected. Very few people understand STV which is why there are always many spoilt ballots. Under FPTP there is a clear connection between the electorate and their representatives. Others have replied in depth, so I will only make one comment: like many people of all parties my vote has never helped elect an MP, in over 40 years of trying. I even tried voting Labour in a marginal seat in 2015 and it still didn't work. Therefore I have never felt any close connection with my MP. Under multimember STV for most of my life I would have had an MP closely aligned with my views. Right now that might not be true, but at least I would be able to prioritise Labour and Tory candidates who favour fair voting systems (and believe me I would write to the candidates and find out their views on this and some other issues I feel strongly about)
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Post by lbarnes on Dec 28, 2018 14:06:56 GMT
erm … STV (Single Transferrable Vote) is by definition "one vote for all electors". Do you have any evidence that there are "always many spoilt ballots"? I don't think the facts support that? I think you know exactly what I mean and are splitting hairs. And yes, the Electoral Commissions report on the 2017 local elections support that. Indeed, there was an increase in the number of spoilt ballots from 2012. Using the number of spoilt votes to determine how democratic a system is seems very niche. They constitute a very small proportion of all votes and there are many reasons for them. Not understanding the process is only one and is very difficult to evaluate. Undoubtedly a big reason for there being more spoilt votes in Scotland in the local elections of 2017 was that there was simply a higher turnout there anyway. The English elections of that year took place in areas where there is a higher than average turnout on the whole and the figure was around 35%. In Scotland it was 46%. That's about one third more and is a far better indicator of the demicracy of a system and how much faith the local electorate place in it.
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