The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,916
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 13, 2022 10:47:35 GMT
The 2017 selection process did result in some rather below-par people being elected as MPs in seats that were most likely serious targets in 2015. High Peak, Colne Valley, Peterborough, Ipswich, Brighton Kemptown all spring immediately to mind. Hmmm, that list maybe shows your biases more than anything. George was so lowly regarded locally that she won a CC election from the Tories with a big majority just a few months after narrowly (and unluckily) losing in 2019. Walker only became a frantic s***posting nutter later. Onasanya was probably destined for better things if only she had not had her Huhne-style moment of madness. No idea why the very inoffensive Martin inspires dislike in anybody. And LR-M, God bless him, does at least appear to have many of his voters on his side. (and of course the above omits the most obvious - and indisputable - example of all) |
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Post by philipgraves on Feb 13, 2022 11:06:31 GMT
The 2017 selection process did result in some rather below-par people being elected as MPs in seats that were most likely serious targets in 2015. High Peak, Colne Valley, Peterborough, Ipswich, Brighton Kemptown all spring immediately to mind. Hmmm, that list maybe shows your biases more than anything. George was so lowly regarded locally that she won a CC election from the Tories with a big majority just months after narrowly (and unluckily) losing in 2019. Walker only became a frantic s***posting nutter later. Onasanya was probably destined for better things had she not had her Huhne-style moment of madness. No idea why the very inoffensive Martin inspires dislike in anybody. And LR-M, God bless him, does at least appear to have many of his voters on his side. (and of course the above omits the most obvious - and indisputable - example of all) There's nothing wrong with Ruth George, she is extremely active locally in Whaley Bridge. Her only error as an MP was to try and defend 1 or 2 idiot members of High Peak CLP. She is as loyal to Starmer as she was to Corbyn. Thelma Walker was quite close to McDonnell when she was an MP and I was surprised she left the party. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,916
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 13, 2022 11:16:13 GMT
Walker has been radicalised online (rather like Duffield, even if in a different direction)
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ilerda
Conservative
Posts: 1,097
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Post by ilerda on Feb 13, 2022 11:45:47 GMT
I think there are low-calibre MPs on both sides of the house, and I’m not saying they’re bad people or bad politicians. I just think there’s a correlation between the way some of them were elected and the quality of their parliamentary endeavours.
We’re seeing exactly the same thing since the 2019 election with a lot of the newly-elected Tories. Snap selected and unexpected results don’t tend to end up with the best quality of MPs in my opinion.
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Post by mattbewilson on Feb 13, 2022 12:22:57 GMT
There has been a pretty low calibre of mp for last 30 years. But i don't think that's a bad thing. Normal people don't always make good mps but I'd rather have normal people in the house than spads
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stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,379 
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Post by stb12 on Feb 13, 2022 13:20:38 GMT
The 2017 selection process did result in some rather below-par people being elected as MPs in seats that were most likely serious targets in 2015. High Peak, Colne Valley, Peterborough, Ipswich, Brighton Kemptown all spring immediately to mind. Hmmm, that list maybe shows your biases more than anything. George was so lowly regarded locally that she won a CC election from the Tories with a big majority just a few months after narrowly (and unluckily) losing in 2019. Walker only became a frantic s***posting nutter later. Onasanya was probably destined for better things if only she had not had her Huhne-style moment of madness. No idea why the very inoffensive Martin inspires dislike in anybody. And LR-M, God bless him, does at least appear to have many of his voters on his side. (and of course the above omits the most obvious - and indisputable - example of all) His speech after losing his seat wasn't exactly gracious:
Now I know to a lot of people he was just speaking the truth but it also would have the effect of making other people dislike him
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Post by greenhert on Feb 13, 2022 14:27:43 GMT
I think there are low-calibre MPs on both sides of the house, and I’m not saying they’re bad people or bad politicians. I just think there’s a correlation between the way some of them were elected and the quality of their parliamentary endeavours. We’re seeing exactly the same thing since the 2019 election with a lot of the newly-elected Tories. Snap selected and unexpected results don’t tend to end up with the best quality of MPs in my opinion. And landslide elections always allow at least a few duds or extremists to slip through the net e.g. Peter Bruinvels in the 1983 Conservative landslide and Jane Griffiths in the 1997 Labour landslide. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,011
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Post by Khunanup on Feb 13, 2022 15:21:55 GMT
From my understanding, the Labour Party has no concept of approved parliamentary candidates as the Lib Dems and the Tories do, with any member being able to put themselves forward for selection for any seat (with shortlisting then taking place via normal procedures). Pre-2017 when there was time for full selection processes, those selected without being on the approved parliamentary candidates list were called for an interview by a NEC panel before confirming their selection. It was the case with the current Hull East MP who was selected in 2010 without being on the approved list. Even more complicated was the selection in Halifax in 2005. Linda Riordan applied to be on the party approved parliamentary candidates panel and on the Co-Op approved parliamentary candidates panel. Party rejected her, Co-Op approved her. All people on affiliates's approved lists are automatically endorsed too. However, in this case, the same person was rejected at the interview for party panel. So NEC organization sub-committee decided to call her for re-interview after selection and failed her again (she was "judged deficient on national policy"). In the end, full NEC opted to endorse her. Thanks. So to clarify, there is an approved candidates list but you don't have to select from that list and any Labour member can put them forward for selection? What is the Labour procedure for becoming an approved candidate? |
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Post by mattbewilson on Feb 13, 2022 16:00:13 GMT
Pre-2017 when there was time for full selection processes, those selected without being on the approved parliamentary candidates list were called for an interview by a NEC panel before confirming their selection. It was the case with the current Hull East MP who was selected in 2010 without being on the approved list. Even more complicated was the selection in Halifax in 2005. Linda Riordan applied to be on the party approved parliamentary candidates panel and on the Co-Op approved parliamentary candidates panel. Party rejected her, Co-Op approved her. All people on affiliates's approved lists are automatically endorsed too. However, in this case, the same person was rejected at the interview for party panel. So NEC organization sub-committee decided to call her for re-interview after selection and failed her again (she was "judged deficient on national policy"). In the end, full NEC opted to endorse her. Thanks. So to clarify, there is an approved candidates list but you don't have to select from that list and any Labour member can put them forward for selection? What is the Labour procedure for becoming an approved candidate? there's the panel which you interview for and once you're approved you can shortlisted to stand for a seat. |
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Post by tonyhill on Feb 13, 2022 16:10:18 GMT
Jenny was baffled by my anguished response to the LibDems in 2010 briefly leading in the polls after the first Leaders' debate. Had we maintained that position scores of people would have been elected who would probably have been a rolling embarrassment to the party as MPs. As it was, the quality of the 57 who were elected in 2010 was very good, and their discipline in government probably, in retrospect, too great.
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bsjmcr
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,591
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Post by bsjmcr on Feb 13, 2022 16:53:05 GMT
Hmmm, that list maybe shows your biases more than anything. George was so lowly regarded locally that she won a CC election from the Tories with a big majority just a few months after narrowly (and unluckily) losing in 2019. Walker only became a frantic s***posting nutter later. Onasanya was probably destined for better things if only she had not had her Huhne-style moment of madness. No idea why the very inoffensive Martin inspires dislike in anybody. And LR-M, God bless him, does at least appear to have many of his voters on his side. (and of course the above omits the most obvious - and indisputable - example of all) His speech after losing his seat wasn't exactly gracious:
Now I know to a lot of people he was just speaking the truth but it also would have the effect of making other people dislike him
Tory Stuart Jackson made an ungracious victory speech in Peterborough in 2015… and though I don’t know if he made a speech on losing in ‘17, sent nasty messages to former constituents on Facebook… |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 14, 2022 11:47:06 GMT
Hmmm, that list maybe shows your biases more than anything. George was so lowly regarded locally that she won a CC election from the Tories with a big majority just a few months after narrowly (and unluckily) losing in 2019. Walker only became a frantic s***posting nutter later. Onasanya was probably destined for better things if only she had not had her Huhne-style moment of madness. No idea why the very inoffensive Martin inspires dislike in anybody. And LR-M, God bless him, does at least appear to have many of his voters on his side. (and of course the above omits the most obvious - and indisputable - example of all) His speech after losing his seat wasn't exactly gracious: Now I know to a lot of people he was just speaking the truth but it also would have the effect of making other people dislike him
Given that the opposing candidate was Tom Hunt, there may have been extenuating circumstances. I've known Sandy for more than a decade now and whilst nobody would ever accuse him of being diplomatic, he was always very well-regarded as a councillor and I can't see why he wouldn't have made the grade as an MP. |
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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Feb 16, 2022 14:52:36 GMT
I think there are low-calibre MPs on both sides of the house, and I’m not saying they’re bad people or bad politicians. I just think there’s a correlation between the way some of them were elected and the quality of their parliamentary endeavours. We’re seeing exactly the same thing since the 2019 election with a lot of the newly-elected Tories. Snap selected and unexpected results don’t tend to end up with the best quality of MPs in my opinion. And landslide elections always allow at least a few duds or extremists to slip through the net e.g. Peter Bruinvels in the 1983 Conservative landslide and Jane Griffiths in the 1997 Labour landslide. Jane Griffiths wasn't a dud or extremist. She was and still is a rather eccentric woman who was bullied by the local CLP, where harassment and bullying is still a significant problem. The replacement candidate was a despised local councillor who hilariously fell on his backside and gifted a seat to the Tories. That kind of eccentric, heavily educated character is very representative of a certain demographic group of Labour voters in Reading East. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 16, 2022 15:56:50 GMT
And landslide elections always allow at least a few duds or extremists to slip through the net e.g. Peter Bruinvels in the 1983 Conservative landslide and Jane Griffiths in the 1997 Labour landslide. Jane Griffiths wasn't a dud or extremist. She was and still is a rather eccentric woman who was bullied by the local CLP, where harassment and bullying is still a significant problem. The replacement candidate was a despised local councillor who hilariously fell on his backside and gifted a seat to the Tories. That kind of eccentric, heavily educated character is very representative of a certain demographic group of Labour voters in Reading East. Oh come on. Tony Page is far from "despised" - you don't get to be a councillor continuously for 48 years and a senior member of the council leadership for over 30 years if you are despised. He lost very narrowly only because of the bad publicity over the deselection and because of some appalling homophobia. |
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Post by elinorhelyn on Feb 16, 2022 16:21:53 GMT
Her interview was advertised on Google podcasts so I gave it a listen while walking the dogs. There were a couple of things that stook on my head. It's very easy to forget politicians are people too and this was a reminder to me that Rosie was kind of thrown into Westminster politics rather unexpectedly as no one ever expected her to win and dhe alludes that she was the only member of Canterbury CLP to apply. Rosie is clearly not a Westminster politician in the sense she's been training for this and says so herself. Saying there are people who've done this since 12 and she kind of just came into it. In this vain it's obvious in this int as she doesn't always seem to think what she says before she says it. Asked what kind of things she wants from the leadership she kind of meanders from calling gor tougher language, admitting not a lot can be done, to what legislation is coming, to something about statements of support and condemning abuse on twitter with her final saying stuff like 'yeah you know what i mean'. Which i do when I'm trailing off. Asked if Stamer is a coward she says I don't know. Asked about is he showing leadership she starts talking about leadership in the MPs office. Doesn't seem awfully prepared. Not a criticism, just a reminder that she's a fairly normal person who does normal things like forgetting what to say next. It is easy to forget that. I think it's because of this she holds views on an issue which isn't really in step with party policy. She's by no means anywhere near some interesting characters we've had. But had Canterbury been on the target list would she had been shortlisted? Maybe, i don't know. I think we should have as many normal folk as possible even if it does their views aren't always shared. Historically she has identified as soft left. A member of open labour, a group that encompasses soft to harder (but not corbyn) left tenancies. Fair to say she's on the more soft side though. In this interview she definitely refers to herself as being part of a more centrist faction and at odds with the corbynista faction. Open Labour appears to disappeared into the ether at this point. She referred throughout to a small group of toxic people. Says momentum are still a lsrge force. She describes Labour as two parties that Stsrker is trying to cater to which is unsustainable. She says a trickle of expulsions is not enough. Doesn't call for a militant style expulsion though. Does she think there is a larger more centrist contingent and Stamer should draw a line in the sand where the toxic element should get off? She says she thinks that the inaction over anti semitism has continued into inaction over this. To top it off she's not leaving for the tories because of brexit and immigration. Unfortunately I think there in lies our problem. If the dividing issues between Labour and the tories are the very issues which many voters abandoned us over in the last 15 years then that says more about the current priorities of the Labour Party than it says about the tories Member of Open Labour, but supported Jess Phillips for leader who was seen as the right-wing's candidate in that election, even though I would opine that Jess Phillips is actually on the soft left and was merely supported by those on the right, who decided to support someone who they saw as the most avowedly Corbyn-sceptic rather than a candidate who actuallly was aligned with their views. |
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Post by greenchristian on Feb 16, 2022 17:01:21 GMT
Jane Griffiths wasn't a dud or extremist. She was and still is a rather eccentric woman who was bullied by the local CLP, where harassment and bullying is still a significant problem. The replacement candidate was a despised local councillor who hilariously fell on his backside and gifted a seat to the Tories. That kind of eccentric, heavily educated character is very representative of a certain demographic group of Labour voters in Reading East. Oh come on. Tony Page is far from "despised" - you don't get to be a councillor continuously for 48 years and a senior member of the council leadership for over 30 years if you are despised. He lost very narrowly only because of the bad publicity over the deselection and because of some appalling homophobia. It's not possible if he's despised by everyone, but Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells didn't specify who it was he thinks despised him. |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Feb 16, 2022 19:14:29 GMT
And landslide elections always allow at least a few duds or extremists to slip through the net e.g. Peter Bruinvels in the 1983 Conservative landslide and Jane Griffiths in the 1997 Labour landslide. Jane Griffiths wasn't a dud or extremist. She was and still is a rather eccentric woman who was bullied by the local CLP, where harassment and bullying is still a significant problem. The replacement candidate was a despised local councillor who hilariously fell on his backside and gifted a seat to the Tories. That kind of eccentric, heavily educated character is very representative of a certain demographic group of Labour voters in Reading East. I don't normally weigh in on this stuff, but I think Davıd Boothroyd is on the money here. My recollection of 2005, and having campaigned there the year before, was that it was expected to be tight but that Page was going to prevail. He did lose- by only by 475 votes in an election coloured heavily by the behaviour of his predecessor, and where the '1997 unwind' was likely to happen- but what he didn't do was hilariously fall on his backside. And, given that he is still on the council, it is a bit of a stretch to describe him as despised. (As an aside, when I was checking Reading Council's website I noticed that Clarence Mitchell- ex BBC hack and McCann family lackey- was a member). |
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maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,305
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Post by maxque on Feb 17, 2022 1:05:18 GMT
And landslide elections always allow at least a few duds or extremists to slip through the net e.g. Peter Bruinvels in the 1983 Conservative landslide and Jane Griffiths in the 1997 Labour landslide. Jane Griffiths wasn't a dud or extremist. She was and still is a rather eccentric woman who was bullied by the local CLP, where harassment and bullying is still a significant problem. The replacement candidate was a despised local councillor who hilariously fell on his backside and gifted a seat to the Tories. That kind of eccentric, heavily educated character is very representative of a certain demographic group of Labour voters in Reading East. She went bankrupt and fled to Latvia because of bullying? |
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Feb 17, 2022 7:52:59 GMT
Cllr. Rosemary Sexton (Solihull West on Solihull) has announced via Twitter that she has resigned from the Green group on the council, but will continue to sit as an Independent member on the council. In her resignation statement, she states the reason for her resignation is down to another one of her fellow councillors in Solihull West sexually harassing a friend, and in her opinion both the national party and local party response was less than she was expecting.
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Feb 17, 2022 8:50:06 GMT
Cllr. Rosemary Sexton (Solihull West on Solihull) has announced via Twitter that she has resigned from the Green group on the council, but will continue to sit as an Independent member on the council. In her resignation statement, she states the reason for her resignation is down to another one of her fellow councillors in Solihull West sexually harassing a friend, and in her opinion both the national party and local party response was less than she was expecting. Presumably her friend took this to the police. If not then it hasn't been dealt with through the appropriate channels. |
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