Councillors in two places at once

[timrollpickering]

Many an elected representative has simultaneously served on multiple tiers covering the same area at the same time.

But how many times have councillors served on two different authorities with no overlap at all?

[gwynthegriff]

There was, I believe, a BNP councillor who served on both Stoke City Council and Staffordshire Moorlands.


Not quite the same but the infamous Brian Silvester defended his Shavington seat on Crewe & Nantwich Borough Council on the same day as seeking election to the Hodnet ward of N Shropshire BC, which didn't go down well. Especially when it emerged that he was also standing for Madeley Parish Council on the same day.

Three councils, three counties, two regions!

He lost in all three.

[Deleted]

Good Lord, is that actually legal?

[Davıd Boothroyd]

It's lawful because there is no law that says it can't happen. As there are four methods of qualifying as a councillor it's quite possible to meet one of them in several different authorities.

There was a Westminster councillor a few years ago who stood in a district a long way outside London while still on Westminster; can't remember the details.

Remember for parish level elections, you don't need to live within the parish boundaries to qualify as a local resident; I think you're allowed a two mile leeway.

[greatkingrat]

Mark Versallion was elected to Central Bedfordshire Council in 2011 while still being a member of LB Harrow.

[J.G.Harston]

Oct 9, 2018 23:11:34 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

It's lawful because there is no law that says it can't happen. As there are four methods of qualifying as a councillor it's quite possible to meet one of them in several different authorities.

There was a Westminster councillor a few years ago who stood in a district a long way outside London while still on Westminster; can't remember the details.

Remember for parish level elections, you don't need to live within the parish boundaries to qualify as a local resident; I think you're allowed a two mile leeway.

Three miles for residency. A couple of months ago we had to void a candidate as he lived seven miles away, and used his business address as his qualifying address... but it was outside the parish. Residency can be three miles, the other three qualifications have to be within the parish (on the register, occupy land, work).

Admittedly, you can be forgiven for thinking "Whitby Business Park" is in Whitby, but the parish boundary runs through the centre of it as it was built straddling the boundary stream. One of the things to be raised at the next parish governance review.

[tonyhill]

Craig Lewis continued to serve as an Andover Councillor on Test Valley after he had moved to Fareham, and was re-elected with his qualification being that as he had retired his job was being a councillor in Test Valley. Note that I am in no way suggesting that he didn't do a good job of representing his electors because I am sure that he did.

[andrewp]

Of course Steve Hastings tried on the Isle of Wight in May 2017 whilst being a Portsmouth councillor

There is one ex district councillor in Somerset who at one time was a member of 3 neighbouring parish councils. One in his district ward, one where he lived and one a neighbouring parish

[ColinJ]

Oct 9, 2018 23:23:08 GMT greatkingrat said:

Mark Versallion was elected to Central Bedfordshire Council in 2011 while still being a member of LB Harrow.

Well remembered. The background is quite interesting. Versallion had been a councillor for Harrow on the Hill ward from 2002 until 2010, when he did a 'chicken-run' to the much safer Conservative seat of Stanmore Park. He was elected there in May 2010 but polled 600 votes less than his two running-mates. It came as a huge shock to the Tory Group - who were unaware of his intentions - when Versallion was elected to Central Bedfordshire council in May 2011 for Heath and Reach ward. It caused something of a local scandal and he was shamed into resigning from Harrow council; at the subsequent by-election there on 28 July 2011 the original councillor whose 'retirement' enabled his chicken-run was re-elected!

[The Bishop]

Oct 9, 2018 21:50:26 GMT gwynthegriff said:

Not quite the same but the infamous Brian Silvester defended his Shavington seat on Crewe & Nantwich Borough Council on the same day as seeking election to the Hodnet ward of N Shropshire BC, which didn't go down well. Especially when it emerged that he was also standing for Madeley Parish Council on the same day.

Three councils, three counties, two regions!

He lost in all three.

Genuinely couldn't happen to a nicer person

[Deleted]

Oct 10, 2018 9:40:08 GMT ColinJ said:

Oct 9, 2018 23:23:08 GMT greatkingrat said:

Mark Versallion was elected to Central Bedfordshire Council in 2011 while still being a member of LB Harrow.

Well remembered. The background is quite interesting. Versallion had been a councillor for Harrow on the Hill ward from 2002 until 2010, when he did a 'chicken-run' to the much safer Conservative seat of Stanmore Park. He was elected there in May 2010 but polled 600 votes less than his two running-mates. It came as a huge shock to the Tory Group - who were unaware of his intentions - when Versallion was elected to Central Bedfordshire council in May 2011 for Heath and Reach ward. It caused something of a local scandal and he was shamed into resigning from Harrow council; at the subsequent by-election there on 28 July 2011 the original councillor whose 'retirement' enabled his chicken-run was re-elected!

And if you're running looking for safe seats, there are very, very few places better than Central Bedfordshire (if you're a Tory).

[Davıd Boothroyd]

A friend of mine got deselected from his safe Tory seat in Central Bedfordshire.

[spqr]

Oct 9, 2018 23:23:08 GMT greatkingrat said:

Mark Versallion was elected to Central Bedfordshire Council in 2011 while still being a member of LB Harrow.

Versallion apparently gained a 'joint doctorate' at Oxford and Reading universities, so he was clearly used to riding two horses at once.

[No Offence Alan]

Richard Lasota is the councillor for The Littletons ward on Wychavon Council.
He is also a parish councillor in South Littleton and in Cleeve Prior. Both parishes are within the ward.
In The Littletons he was the Conservative candidate.
In Cleeve Prior, his description was "For Localism & Law & Order".
He had no description in South Littleton.

[Peter Wilkinson]

There was an example of this for a few months earlier this year.

Rebecca Challice was elected to Barnet Council as a councillor for East Barnet ward in the 2014 elections. A couple of years later, she married, and moved a few miles away, across the Greater London / Hertfordshire boundary into Hertsmere. In January this year, as Rebecca Butler, she won a by-election to become a councillor for Cowley Hill ward on Hertsmere Council. Her term on Barnet Council ended at the local elections this May (in which, no longer being resident in Barnet, she did not stand).

Oh, and in both elections, she won a previously Conservative seat for Labour.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

Found the Westminster example - Harvey Marshall was a councillor in Marylebone from 1990 to 2013 when he retired. He was also a parish councillor in Sandgate Parish, in Shepway/Folkestone and Hythe district in Kent - and in 2007 he stood for election to Shepway district council.

And now he lives in Guernsey.

[froome]

Oct 10, 2018 1:41:24 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Oct 9, 2018 23:11:34 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

It's lawful because there is no law that says it can't happen. As there are four methods of qualifying as a councillor it's quite possible to meet one of them in several different authorities.

There was a Westminster councillor a few years ago who stood in a district a long way outside London while still on Westminster; can't remember the details.

Remember for parish level elections, you don't need to live within the parish boundaries to qualify as a local resident; I think you're allowed a two mile leeway.

Three miles for residency. A couple of months ago we had to void a candidate as he lived seven miles away, and used his business address as his qualifying address... but it was outside the parish. Residency can be three miles, the other three qualifications have to be within the parish (on the register, occupy land, work).

Admittedly, you can be forgiven for thinking "Whitby Business Park" is in Whitby, but the parish boundary runs through the centre of it as it was built straddling the boundary stream. One of the things to be raised at the next parish governance review.

The three miles is three miles from the parish boundary. As some parishes can include a lot of relatively uninhabited countryside, that can mean many miles from the actual main village of the parish.

Going slightly off topic, how is the work address defined? Some people obviously work in several places for their job, and may have more than one, or several jobs. Is it the address that you 'work' at, i.e. an office or whatever, or the registered address, which could be somewhere completely else, or what? Work is far more mobile and flexible than it was when the rules for this presumably came about.

[J.G.Harston]

Oct 19, 2018 21:19:24 GMT froome said:

Oct 10, 2018 1:41:24 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Three miles for residency. A couple of months ago we had to void a candidate as he lived seven miles away, and used his business address as his qualifying address... but it was outside the parish. Residency can be three miles, the other three qualifications have to be within the parish (on the register, occupy land, work).

Admittedly, you can be forgiven for thinking "Whitby Business Park" is in Whitby, but the parish boundary runs through the centre of it as it was built straddling the boundary stream. One of the things to be raised at the next parish governance review.

The three miles is three miles from the parish boundary. As some parishes can include a lot of relatively uninhabited countryside, that can mean many miles from the actual main village of the parish.

Going slightly off topic, how is the work address defined?

It's self-declared. With the side effect that if you self-declare an address that turns out to be invalid, you're stuck for 12 months as if you come back a week later and say "oh, my work address is now X" you are either:
* have only worked at the new 'X' for one week, as demonstrated by your previous application, and so fail the '...for twleve months' bit; or
* if you really have worked a the new 'X' for the qualifying twelve months, this proves that your previous application was fraudulant.

[froome]

Oct 20, 2018 0:55:50 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Oct 19, 2018 21:19:24 GMT froome said:

The three miles is three miles from the parish boundary. As some parishes can include a lot of relatively uninhabited countryside, that can mean many miles from the actual main village of the parish.

Going slightly off topic, how is the work address defined?

It's self-declared. With the side effect that if you self-declare an address that turns out to be invalid, you're stuck for 12 months as if you come back a week later and say "oh, my work address is now X" you are either:
* have only worked at the new 'X' for one week, as demonstrated by your previous application, and so fail the '...for twleve months' bit; or
* if you really have worked a the new 'X' for the qualifying twelve months, this proves that your previous application was fraudulant.

Yes, but... it ignores the very real situation many people have of working in many places at the same time, such as having more than one job and therefore more than one work address. Does that mean they can legitimately be councillors in several places at once? Or would be invalidated, and if so, why?

[greenchristian]

Oct 20, 2018 0:55:50 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Oct 19, 2018 21:19:24 GMT froome said:

The three miles is three miles from the parish boundary. As some parishes can include a lot of relatively uninhabited countryside, that can mean many miles from the actual main village of the parish.

Going slightly off topic, how is the work address defined?

It's self-declared. With the side effect that if you self-declare an address that turns out to be invalid, you're stuck for 12 months as if you come back a week later and say "oh, my work address is now X" you are either:
* have only worked at the new 'X' for one week, as demonstrated by your previous application, and so fail the '...for twleve months' bit; or
* if you really have worked a the new 'X' for the qualifying twelve months, this proves that your previous application was fraudulant.

So presumably the rules need to be updated to include provision for people who have worked at multiple addresses within the council area over that twelve month period.