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Post by innocentabroad on Apr 6, 2013 18:37:41 GMT
@tobyhelm New Opinium/Observer poll. Labour 38, Tories 28, UKIP 17, Lib Dems 8%. Put another way: a 15% majority for the demolition of the 1945 welfare settlement & in favour of the abolition of social justice. |
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Post by stepney on Apr 6, 2013 20:18:03 GMT
Put another way: a 15% majority for the demolition of the 1945 welfare settlement & in favour of the abolition of social justice. Oh, do give over. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 20:19:47 GMT
@tobyhelm New Opinium/Observer poll. Labour 38, Tories 28, UKIP 17, Lib Dems 8%. Put another way: a 15% majority for the demolition of the 1945 welfare settlement & in favour of the abolition of social justice. as I posted in another thread House Of Twits @houseoftwits RT @msmithsonpb Just 10% of those questioned in the Opinium/Observer said they believed more welfare cuts should be made so it is not true even a majority of Tories what to go any further |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 20:25:01 GMT
nothing changed over the past two weeks, hoe far desperate can the Tories now get ? Still do not think UKIP at 17% is right Aye you are right some think it might be higher... |
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Post by tonygreaves on Apr 6, 2013 22:07:13 GMT
Opimium are a joke!
Tony Greaves
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Post by innocentabroad on Apr 7, 2013 6:38:00 GMT
Put another way: a 15% majority for the demolition of the 1945 welfare settlement & in favour of the abolition of social justice. Oh, do give over. Give over what? Give over supposing that there was a reason Labour got its massive majority for the introduction of social welfare in 1945 rather than 1935 or 1955 or 2005? Give over believing that there were two reasons: the experience of the British people in two world wars, creating a uniquely high level of social solidarity, a precondition of which (and therefore the other reason) is an ethnically homogenous society? Give over what? Give over believing that all Labour's voters are in favour of social justice? It is, after all, as any anthropologist will tell you, an unnatural belief and only functional in certain circumstances. Whether those include the ones we're now living through (increasingly rapid economic decline coupled with the exhaustion of natural resources) only time will tell. |
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Post by stepney on Apr 7, 2013 7:11:44 GMT
I mean give over the idea that the Tories, any more than the Lib Dems (for goodness sake) or even indeed UKIP, stand for "the demolition of the 1945 welfare settlement & in favour of the abolition of social justice." The Coalition Government plainly isn't tearing down the welfare state or grinding the faces of the poor or whatever overblown empty rhetoric you might choose to employ. It's the same sort of windy rhetoric the Labour Party has used against every Tory Government since 1970 and every time it turns out to be utter cobblers.
The best that can be said for your sanctimonious comment is that presumably you accept that 11 years of government by Mrs Thatcher didn't involve "the demolition of the 1945 welfare settlement", although it then reflects badly on your judgment if you think people like Cameron, Osborne or Clegg are more right-wing than Mrs Thatcher.
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Post by innocentabroad on Apr 7, 2013 7:54:41 GMT
I mean give over the idea that the Tories, any more than the Lib Dems (for goodness sake) or even indeed UKIP, stand for "the demolition of the 1945 welfare settlement & in favour of the abolition of social justice." The Coalition Government plainly isn't tearing down the welfare state or grinding the faces of the poor or whatever overblown empty rhetoric you might choose to employ. It's the same sort of windy rhetoric the Labour Party has used against every Tory Government since 1970 and every time it turns out to be utter cobblers. The best that can be said for your sanctimonious comment is that presumably you accept that 11 years of government by Mrs Thatcher didn't involve "the demolition of the 1945 welfare settlement", although it then reflects badly on your judgment if you think people like Cameron, Osborne or Clegg are more right-wing than Mrs Thatcher. Perhaps you'd be prepared to tell me what proportion of the electorate are in favour of social justice? All of them? FWIW I think that Liam Byrne is "to the right" of Mrs Thatcher - "autres temps, autres moeurs" is the whole thrust of my argument. More seriously, applying the terms "left" and "right" across different time-frames is meaningless. Was Peel to the right or left of Baldwin? Major right or left of Macmillan? Merely to ask the question is to see that it doesn't make sense. . |
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Post by stepney on Apr 7, 2013 7:58:49 GMT
Plainly in your view, the proportion of the electorate who are in favour of social justice is exactly equal to the proportion who support the Labour Party.
Perhaps you'd like to give some examples of the Coalition Government demolishing the welfare state or abolishing social justice?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2013 20:38:30 GMT
Give over what? Give over believing that all Labour's voters are in favour of social justice? It is, after all, as any anthropologist will tell you, an unnatural belief and only functional in certain circumstances. I'm sorry for going back nine days to respond to something that was largely off-topic with something even more off-topic, but I wouldn't be able to sleep tonight without asking you what you were talking about here. I can't imagine any of the living anthropologists that I know (and I'm on social terms with many, if not quite one myself yet) describing any belief as 'unnatural', let alone agreeing with that statement. Functionalism had largely gone out of fashion by the 1950s, if not before. |
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Post by innocentabroad on Apr 17, 2013 7:32:41 GMT
Give over what? Give over believing that all Labour's voters are in favour of social justice? It is, after all, as any anthropologist will tell you, an unnatural belief and only functional in certain circumstances. I'm sorry for going back nine days to respond to something that was largely off-topic with something even more off-topic, but I wouldn't be able to sleep tonight without asking you what you were talking about here. I can't imagine any of the living anthropologists that I know (and I'm on social terms with many, if not quite one myself yet) describing any belief as 'unnatural', let alone agreeing with that statement. Functionalism had largely gone out of fashion by the 1950s, if not before. It must be about due to return, then. More seriously what I think I might have been trying to say was that identity with the 'tribe' (however defined) trumped identity with the species. To-day I want to back-pedal somewhat: I think it depends on where an individual was brought up and how educated. My parents were dimly aware that racism and Christianity were incompatible (which their parents would simply not have understood as an idea) - my children, having lived all their lives in inner London (and with no desire whatever to live anywhere else) have, through that experience of difference from earliest childhood, a far more enlightened view of the world than I ever could. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Apr 20, 2013 16:37:35 GMT
Toby Helm @tobyhelm 11m
Labour drops 3% to 35% in New Opinium/Observer poll. Tories up 1% to 29%, UKIP up 1% to 17%. Lib Dems same on 8%.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2013 16:55:16 GMT
oh well that poll is giving the usual suspects something to crow about on twitter.
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Post by tonygreaves on Apr 21, 2013 12:20:36 GMT
Opinium gies LDs 8, ICM says 15.
Living proof that polls are wrong some of the time. Perhaps both are wrong in this case!
Tony Greaves
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 21, 2013 13:32:51 GMT
Average out the two and you might be getting warm??
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Post by Tony Otim on Apr 21, 2013 20:36:36 GMT
Average out the two and you might be getting warm?? Or at least getting Yougov. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2013 20:45:26 GMT
Opinium/Observer poll. Labour 35, Tories 28, Ukip 17, Lib Dems 9%.
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Post by Devonian on May 18, 2013 20:32:57 GMT
Latest Opinium
Ukip 20%, LAB 37, CON 27%, LDs 7%
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2013 20:36:08 GMT
Bit worrying for the dems that they are scoring as low as 1/3 of UKIPs total. I wonder what the odds are on 3rd place.
Futhermore UKIP polling on 2nd or even 1st around europeans next year
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2013 20:59:25 GMT
these polls are consistent in one way, in showing increased UKIP but they are showing it at the benefit of all parties but different in different polls.
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