spqr
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,774
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Post by spqr on Apr 28, 2021 18:04:07 GMT
It depends whether anyone has the wit to brand him in a way that everyone understands. I would go with "Del-boy Johnson" if I were Starmer and ask him at PMQ if he has stopped selling Peckham Spring water yet.I That would never work. Comparing Johnson to a working-class spiv or ne'er-do-well would be counter-intuitive to most people; if you want to skewer him you have to amplify his poshness. Besides, people like Del Boy.
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Post by greenchristian on Apr 28, 2021 18:07:52 GMT
It depends whether anyone has the wit to brand him in a way that everyone understands. I would go with "Del-boy Johnson" if I were Starmer and ask him at PMQ if he has stopped selling Peckham Spring water yet.I That would never work. Comparing Johnson to a working-class tradesman would be counter-intuitive to most people; if you want to skewer him you have to amplify his poshness. Besides, people like Del Boy. He basically is a posh version of the stereotypical used car salesman. I guess it's the incompatible nature of these two stereotypes that's made him difficult to skewer effectively in the court of public opinion.
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Post by london(ex)tory on Apr 28, 2021 18:44:48 GMT
Or maybe it’s this: when asked to be shocked at evidence of corruption which consists of a man seemingly asking if others could help pay for the refurbishment of a public building he is obliged to live in to do his job, but then agreeing to pay for it himself, the public decline to share the sham outrage of his political opponents. Or when invited to share the view that at the height of the pandemic , the priority shouldn’t have been securing ventilators, but ensuring that the paperwork was fully completed , they disagree. Or if someone uses colourful language to indicate their utter frustration at the prospect of ordering another lockdown when they know the damage it will do, but does so anyway when weighing the alternative, that is something more to be sympathised with , rather than condemned. Or put more generally , people think that on the whole, the government and hence its leadership is currently in credit. In particular of course its success with the vaccination programme in stark contrast with the fiasco in Europe , which every other Party leader in Westminster and elsewhere would have had us share, however they try to spin it now. It is quite remarkable - there is so much to attack the government for but every single one of these “attacks” is aiming at the wrong target. However crap the government might be, the opposition seems hell bent on proving it’s even worse. I really thought Labour would do better with out a Marxist anti semite in charge but i must have been wrong.
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Post by andrew111 on Apr 28, 2021 20:15:12 GMT
It depends whether anyone has the wit to brand him in a way that everyone understands. I would go with "Del-boy Johnson" if I were Starmer and ask him at PMQ if he has stopped selling Peckham Spring water yet.I That would never work. Comparing Johnson to a working-class spiv or ne'er-do-well would be counter-intuitive to most people; if you want to skewer him you have to amplify his poshness. Besides, people like Del Boy. People do like Del Boy, but everything he did failed which is not such a good look for a PM...
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Post by andrew111 on Apr 28, 2021 20:18:16 GMT
Or maybe it’s this: when asked to be shocked at evidence of corruption which consists of a man seemingly asking if others could help pay for the refurbishment of a public building he is obliged to live in to do his job, but then agreeing to pay for it himself, the public decline to share the sham outrage of his political opponents. Or when invited to share the view that at the height of the pandemic , the priority shouldn’t have been securing ventilators, but ensuring that the paperwork was fully completed , they disagree. Or if someone uses colourful language to indicate their utter frustration at the prospect of ordering another lockdown when they know the damage it will do, but does so anyway when weighing the alternative, that is something more to be sympathised with , rather than condemned. Or put more generally , people think that on the whole, the government and hence its leadership is currently in credit. In particular of course its success with the vaccination programme in stark contrast with the fiasco in Europe , which every other Party leader in Westminster and elsewhere would have had us share, however they try to spin it now. It is always important to keep in mind that it is still a minority of the British people that support the govt, just as it was in the last GE.
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johng
Labour
Posts: 4,491
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Post by johng on Apr 30, 2021 12:25:15 GMT
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johng
Labour
Posts: 4,491
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Post by johng on May 4, 2021 16:55:23 GMT
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Post by gibbon on May 4, 2021 20:04:37 GMT
This seems to be in line with some other polls reported in the last few days. While much ahs been made about the 'red wall seats' it may be that some of the traditional 'blue wall seats' in London and the south west may be shifting away from the Conservatives. After 26 May when Cummings attends the Select Committee attitudes may change again. Although there have been attempts to make light of the 'sleaze' allegations I remember the comments made at the time of the Poulson bankruptcy hearings and later the criminal trial that he had done nothing wrong. One of my former teachers spent months as a member of the jury and it was said that the strain of listening to that case affected his health and he never returned to teaching. Initially people thought that the Watergate investigations were a waste of time (particularly Republicans) but as time went on Nixon's position got weaker and weaker.
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hengo
Conservative
Posts: 1,689
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Post by hengo on May 4, 2021 20:55:04 GMT
It looks as if there has been some mileage in the “sleaze “ attacks. It helps that Labour’s line has been given some credibility by Cummings ( their new poster boy, whose word is unquestioned!) and the Daily Mail as well as their more usual allies at the BBC ,Guardian etc. But the problem in the longer term is that it is focussed pretty much entirely on Johnson. When Majors government was seriously damaged by a perception of sleaze it was the reverse: people actually thought him a decent enough chap , but weak ,while there seemed to be a general malaise and feeling of seediness. My own reaction at the time was largely triggered by annoyance at the replacement of traditional public bodies, usually in some way accountable to either local elected members, or to Ministers, with a range of unaccountable bodies, which seemed to be heavily stuffed by Tory placemen or women. Ironically this subsequently proved a practice so enthusiastically taken up by Labour that many of their placemen and placewomen are still there today.
By focussing on Johnson there are only two outcomes. Either he stays or he goes. He may well emerge, if not unscathed, but not holed beneath the waterline. The essentially trivial nature of the substance of the allegations weigh in his favour. What his opponents have to do is convince that they are indicative of a fatally untrustworthy character. But as others have pointed out, much of the character stuff is already “ priced in” and many will also continue to see things in him they like , inexplicable as that may be to his detractors. And no one would ever have made much money betting against him. But it’s possible that if he is found to be technically in breach of the Ministerial code ( or if he just gets tired of it all), then he could go early. And we’d have a new PM with a good space before the next election , a strongly recovering economy, and nothing much to fear from any conclusions from a Covid enquiry which may be critical of some of his predecessors decisions.
If my interest were solely in maximising the electoral chances of the Labour Party I think in the whole I’d prefer Johnson in place but, hopefully from their perspective , damaged. But either way I can’t see ( other than -as ever - the emergence of “events” ) much to disturb the likelihood of another Conservative government next time.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 4, 2021 21:17:47 GMT
It helps that Labour’s line has been given some credibility by Cummings ( their new poster boy, whose word is unquestioned!) They need to remember what happens when you lie down with dogs. (No laughing in the cheap seats)
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johng
Labour
Posts: 4,491
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Post by johng on May 4, 2021 21:38:17 GMT
It looks as if there has been some mileage in the “sleaze “ attacks. It's just polling at the moment of course, but it does look like it's had a bit of an effect*. I agree with you that the current story is fairly trivial and the deeper corruption stuff is too complex to have any effect on those not interested in politics (i.e the majority), but daily negative news stories on anything hurt. * Though as I've posted on another thread, the constituency and mayoral polls today paint a much less rosy picture for Labour so it isn't so clear-cut.
Johnson won't be found in breach of the code as he makes the final decision on that. He can overrule any investigation as he did for Priti Patel. The Conservative Party will want to keep him as long as they think he can win an election. I think the Tories will do reasonably well on Thursday. A Hartlepool win (as polls and supposed Labour canvas data suggest) would overshadow loses elsewhere and would be a big personal boost over the current negative press. They aren't as ruthless as some think too. May took ages to get rid of.
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Post by gibbon on May 4, 2021 22:09:57 GMT
While it may not affect the results on Thursday the drip feed of the cash for curtains and Cummings evidence may well affect the outcome of the Chesham and Amersham by-election. This is a suitable seat for the usual Liberal Democrat bar chart to push tactical voting. The by-election will probably be in June.
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Post by gibbon on May 4, 2021 22:10:12 GMT
While it may not affect the results on Thursday the drip feed of the cash for curtains and Cummings evidence may well affect the outcome of the Chesham and Amersham by-election. This is a suitable seat for the usual Liberal Democrat bar chart to push tactical voting. The by-election will probably be in June.
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Post by gibbon on May 4, 2021 22:10:24 GMT
While it may not affect the results on Thursday the drip feed of the cash for curtains and Cummings evidence may well affect the outcome of the Chesham and Amersham by-election. This is a suitable seat for the usual Liberal Democrat bar chart to push tactical voting. The by-election will probably be in June.
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Post by hullenedge on May 11, 2021 14:49:54 GMT
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Jack
Reform Party
Posts: 8,116
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Post by Jack on May 17, 2021 14:00:21 GMT
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Post by robert1 on May 18, 2021 15:47:14 GMT
Starmer’s Favourability Ratings drop 11pts in Savanta ComRes Political Tracker • Headline favourability ratings (chg from April): Johnson +6 (+4); Starmer -18 (-11); UK Government +4 (+5) • Best PM rating: Johnson 48% (+4), Starmer 24% (-6), Don't know (28% (+2) • Starmer’s rating is his lowest since the tracker began last May; Johnson and UK Government’s ratings are highest since first wave last May • Third say they dislike both Starmer and his policies – highest ever figure • Conversely a third say they like both Johnson and his policies – highest figure since June 2020 Keir Starmer’s net favourability rating has dropped 11pts in a month to -18, his lowest ever rating in the Savanta ComRes political tracker. Following a poor performance in the local elections and a somewhat bungled reshuffle, a third (33%) of adults now say that they dislike both the leader of the opposition, and his policies, up 5pts from last month. And this latest poll follows a Savanta ComRes voting intention, published yesterday, that gives the Conservative Party an 11pt lead, the largest lead in a Savanta ComRes poll since May last year, and the lowest Labour figure since February 2020. The bad news for Starmer in this poll is compounded by other metrics, including a 6pt drop in those who say that they like both Keir Starmer and his policies (14%), and a 10pt drop in those that say they like both Keir Starmer and his party (13%). Boris Johnson, conversely, scores his highest figures in both metrics (32% and 31%, respectively) since June 2020. The public are twice as likely to say that Labour are divided than the Conservatives (33% vs 15%), while just 9% say that Labour have good leadership, compared to one in five (20%) who say the same for the Conservatives. And, perhaps most troubling of all, just a quarter (24%) of UK adults say that Keir Starmer would make the best Prime Minister, half as many who say Boris Johnson would make the best PM (48%). More people don’t know (28%) than pick Starmer. Amongst 2019 Labour voters, under three in five (56%) say that Starmer would make the best Prime Minister. Over a quarter say that they don't know (27%).
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Post by justin124 on May 27, 2021 14:19:16 GMT
Con 43% (-) Lab 34% (+2) LD 9% (+1) Grn 4 (-1) SNP 4 (-) May 21st - 23rd
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Post by hullenedge on Jun 3, 2021 13:03:05 GMT
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Post by hullenedge on Jun 9, 2021 16:24:42 GMT
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