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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2012 16:17:40 GMT
Again, not addressing the question. Why were they strong candidates, I'm fascinated to know why? because I think they were, I think for my own selection they were strong. You obviously know the likes of Ali Ansar Khan and Steve Bedser better. I certainly do not know them close up. But it could have had anyone there and Dromey would have won, close up he is an impressive debator and even political opponents recognise that. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Dec 2, 2012 17:49:13 GMT
Well I don't think I am giving away any secrets if I say that some of our candidates aren't quite ideal MP material and for a party at our stage of development this is quite natural. We also have a large number who could probably do okay if we had a major breakthrough at a general election and got a dozen or so MPs elected but who would not really be suited to be the party's only MP. I think the later would probably be true of many MPs who sit in the House today. good point but from a totally partisan POV I have to say ... Ian I don't think you should ever feel it necessary to preface your posts with this. It is taken as read |
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Harry Hayfield
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Dec 2, 2012 20:09:25 GMT
Getting back to the subject of defections, did I answer the following question on All Experts correctly?
Who was the last MP to swap sides in the UK House of Commons and who was the last MP to swap sides and stand as his new party in an election?
In the United Kingdom, the process of swapping sides is called "crossing the floor" as an MP literally crosses the floor of the House in order to change parties. I am not sure who the last MP was to physically cross the floor but the last MP to do so was Quentin Davies (Stamford and Spalding) when he became a Labour MP having been a Conservative MP since the 1987 general election. The last MP to defect and contest an election as their new party was Lady Slyvia Hermon (North Down) who resigned from the Ulster Unionists in protest over their electoral alliance with the Conservatives, prior to that was George Galloway (Glasgow, Kelvin) who resigned from Labour (or was sacked dependent on your viewpoint) and founded Respect and stood in Bethnal Green and Bow in the 2005 general election and was elected.
I wasn't sure whether to include Mitcham and Morden as I wasn't sure that's what the person wanted to know.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2012 20:12:47 GMT
onto a similar line, how many by election victors held their seats at the next general election. Obviously in safe seats this happens but the likes of Chloe Smith who won a marginal by election then the next GE.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Dec 2, 2012 20:39:25 GMT
Again, not addressing the question. Why were they strong candidates, I'm fascinated to know why? , I think for my own selection they were strong. You obviously know the likes of Ali Ansar Khan and Steve Bedser better. I certainly do not know them close up. But it could have had anyone there and Dromey would have won, close up he is an impressive debator and even political opponents recognise that. ianrobery in a nutshell  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2012 20:45:09 GMT
yes from what I know of them I think they were strong, as not a member of that CLP not my place to take part in the debate on selection.
Same as any who make judgements on this, was Dromey a parachute - yes
Was Dromey a good candidate for Erdington Labour - yes
Did he go with a weakened panel compared to a normal selection - do not think so
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Post by paulw on Dec 3, 2012 15:05:09 GMT
Getting back to the subject of defections, did I answer the following question on All Experts correctly? Who was the last MP to swap sides in the UK House of Commons and who was the last MP to swap sides and stand as his new party in an election?In the United Kingdom, the process of swapping sides is called "crossing the floor" as an MP literally crosses the floor of the House in order to change parties. I am not sure who the last MP was to physically cross the floor but the last MP to do so was Quentin Davies (Stamford and Spalding) when he became a Labour MP having been a Conservative MP since the 1987 general election. The last MP to defect and contest an election as their new party was Lady Slyvia Hermon (North Down) who resigned from the Ulster Unionists in protest over their electoral alliance with the Conservatives, prior to that was George Galloway (Glasgow, Kelvin) who resigned from Labour (or was sacked dependent on your viewpoint) and founded Respect and stood in Bethnal Green and Bow in the 2005 general election and was elected.I wasn't sure whether to include Mitcham and Morden as I wasn't sure that's what the person wanted to know. Christopher Brocklebank-Fowler may have physically crossed the floor on 16th Match 1981 hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1981/mar/16/budget-resolutions-and-economic-situation |
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on Dec 3, 2012 15:20:47 GMT
Getting back to the subject of defections, did I answer the following question on All Experts correctly? Who was the last MP to swap sides in the UK House of Commons and who was the last MP to swap sides and stand as his new party in an election?In the United Kingdom, the process of swapping sides is called "crossing the floor" as an MP literally crosses the floor of the House in order to change parties. I am not sure who the last MP was to physically cross the floor but the last MP to do so was Quentin Davies (Stamford and Spalding) when he became a Labour MP having been a Conservative MP since the 1987 general election. The last MP to defect and contest an election as their new party was Lady Slyvia Hermon (North Down) who resigned from the Ulster Unionists in protest over their electoral alliance with the Conservatives, prior to that was George Galloway (Glasgow, Kelvin) who resigned from Labour (or was sacked dependent on your viewpoint) and founded Respect and stood in Bethnal Green and Bow in the 2005 general election and was elected.I wasn't sure whether to include Mitcham and Morden as I wasn't sure that's what the person wanted to know. Quentin Davies was the MP for Grantham and Stamford at the time of his defection. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2012 17:43:36 GMT
Aren't MPs usually allocated a place to sit down in the House of Commons?
We all hopefully know whereabouts Dennis Skinner always sits, for example.
So if an MP decided to physically cross the floor they would be unlikely to do so during PMQs when someone might say "Oi, that's my seat" or "get off my knee!"
Similarly, defecting MPs would not necessarily cross the floor. If a Labour MP announced he was joining the Socialist Party, he'd be more likely to budge up a couple of places.
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Post by Tangent on Dec 4, 2012 17:58:37 GMT
Seats aren't allocated - they are taken by custom. The front bench below the gangway was known as the "Baronets' Bench" on the Conservative side. The corner closest to the gangway was traditionally occupied by either the leader of a minor party, or the most senior backbencher on that side of the House. Dennis Skinner usurped it before he was entitled to it, and has held on despite angry struggles, not least with the SDP.
Normally, an MP who crosses the floor has warned members of the receiving party, and they will make space for him.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Dec 4, 2012 19:35:48 GMT
The front bench seat just below the gangway is traditionally the seat of a former Prime Minister but the tradition has not been observed since Edward Heath left Parliament.
The second bench below the gangway on the the opposition side was the traditional location for the Liberals and Alliance, while the front bench was for the principal opposition. When the SDP was formed and the Alliance grew significantly larger, the SDP members attempted to occupy the front bench but were rebuffed (Dennis Skinner was particularly insistent at not letting Woy Jenkins sit on the front bench).
David Lloyd George sat on the front bench corner seat above the gallery, next to the Labour shadow cabinet, from the October 1931 election until leaving the House of Commons, despite the Liberals going into opposition from 1933.
The third bench below the gangway on the opposition side has been occupied by Scottish National Party and Plaid Cymru MPs recently (although opposition MPs can sit on the far end), and the fourth bench is the traditional home of the Ulster Unionists and DUP.
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Post by Tangent on Dec 4, 2012 21:25:39 GMT
I believe that, before the First World War, the IPP held the front bench below the gangway. After Independence, T. P. O'Connor occupied the corner seat just below the gangway - I don't know whether this was in tribute to his seniority or the former IPP custom. Do you know if LG addressed the House from the Opposition Despatch Box from his final position, David? Leaving aside David Owen's attempt in the 1980s, that would probably be the last time the traditional right of Opposition PCs from minor parties to speak at the Box was exercised.
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Post by tonygreaves on Dec 22, 2012 20:10:02 GMT
The SDP were never "rebuffed", they just had to fight it out with a few Labour people mainly Skinner. When Jenkins first sat in the first seat below the gangway, Skinner sat on his knee. Jenkins moved along a bit.
When the Liberal Democrats got over 40 seats in 1997 they decided to sit on the front two benches. Heath refused to give up his seat - the first seat below the gangway - and as a result sat during that parliament next to all the leading Liberals.
The "backbench" Liberal Democrats have now colonised that territory, fairly successfully, but obviously on the government side of the House.
Tony Greaves
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Dec 23, 2012 13:37:13 GMT
When the Liberal Democrats got over 40 seats in 1997 they decided to sit on the front two benches. Heath refused to give up his seat - the first seat below the gangway - and as a result sat during that parliament next to all the leading Liberals. And Paddy would sit directly behind him and the leader took Heath's old seat from 2001 onwards. I've often wondered in the Conservatives had got a majority in 2010 and thus the Lib Dems sat with the opposition where Skinner would have / tried to sit |
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Post by timrollpickering on Dec 23, 2012 14:19:55 GMT
Skinner would have taken his traditional seat and woe betide anyone who tried to stop him.
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Post by tonygreaves on Dec 23, 2012 17:09:44 GMT
Ashdown v Skinner? A loudmouth cowardly bully against a professional?
Tony Greaves
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 17:14:56 GMT
Would never have called Ashdown a bully bit if you say so Tony ...
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Post by Tangent on Dec 24, 2012 12:41:39 GMT
Ashdown v Skinner? A loudmouth cowardly bully against a professional? Tony Greaves Skinner certainly managed to get under Ashdown's skin. One entry in Ashdown's diaries records him getting up to speak in a debate on Maastricht, and Skinner raising a great laugh by interjecting "Make way for Captain Mainwaring". It clearly left Ashdown bitter and angry. |
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Post by tonygreaves on Dec 25, 2012 20:41:14 GMT
But on Maastricht Ashdown won the day and Skinner was left spluttering. I do think Skinner is one of the most unpleasant politicians of my generation.
Tony Greaves
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 14:26:08 GMT
But on Maastricht Ashdown won the day s but was he right ?? |
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