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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Jan 20, 2023 21:59:23 GMT
It's a profoundly tedious culture war that distracts from real issues. The culture war isn't the most important issue, but I would say it's a "real issue". Certainly for me as a gay man at least. Both sides have real elements of homophobia that concern me.
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Post by carlton43 on Jan 20, 2023 22:20:13 GMT
In my opinion, which I fully appreciate many of you won't share, Rosie Duffield has been very fortunate to retain the Labour Whip without any warnings in the last 2 to 3 years. I'm no extremist on either side of this debate, but to me sometimes she has been very close to crossing the line of what I and many Labour Party members regard as acceptable language on this issue. I naturally have huge sympathy for her in terms of her being a victim of coercive control, and that's where her bravery was really shown - in her frank address to the House of Commons describing her awful experiences. That however doesn't alter the fact that I think some of her language has at times either crossed the line, or been very close to it, and I for one will be relaxed about the prospect of her not standing again. Yes. We don't share it. And your opinion is totally vile but in your defence, your party is going through a particularly stupid and vile sequence of vileness. Anti-Semitism on a wholesale scale not enough and now you hound people not subscribing to total blithering idiocy over gender.
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Post by carlton43 on Jan 20, 2023 22:48:15 GMT
I have less than zero interest in the genitalia of strangers, unless out life drawing; then I try to 'get them right'! Let's hope there's no transgender models in your life class! Why? I draw what is there or 'Not' there, in which case it is not drawn. Art is not about polemic it is about a personal view of reality expressed in an individualistic manner. I have drawn a fat man who we thought had serious infection of pox, and a very old thin man with a dripping cock. I know my genitalia. I have been round the studio more than once!
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Post by mattbewilson on Jan 20, 2023 23:25:58 GMT
In my opinion, which I fully appreciate many of you won't share, Rosie Duffield has been very fortunate to retain the Labour Whip without any warnings in the last 2 to 3 years. I'm no extremist on either side of this debate, but to me sometimes she has been very close to crossing the line of what I and many Labour Party members regard as acceptable language on this issue. I naturally have huge sympathy for her in terms of her being a victim of coercive control, and that's where her bravery was really shown - in her frank address to the House of Commons describing her awful experiences. That however doesn't alter the fact that I think some of her language has at times either crossed the line, or been very close to it, and I for one will be relaxed about the prospect of her not standing again. Yes. We don't share it. And your opinion is totally vile but in your defence, your party is going through a particularly stupid and vile sequence of vileness. Anti-Semitism on a wholesale scale not enough and now you hound people not subscribing to total blithering idiocy over gender. attacking Barnaby over anti-Semitism in a trans row seems a poor look given he founded a campaign group against anti semitism
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Post by carlton43 on Jan 20, 2023 23:28:59 GMT
Yes. We don't share it. And your opinion is totally vile but in your defence, your party is going through a particularly stupid and vile sequence of vileness. Anti-Semitism on a wholesale scale not enough and now you hound people not subscribing to total blithering idiocy over gender. attacking Barnaby over anti-Semitism in a trans row seems a poor look given he founded a campaign group against anti semitism Yes, I know. Then he should know better and know how it feels.
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Post by mattbewilson on Jan 20, 2023 23:34:54 GMT
attacking Barnaby over anti-Semitism in a trans row seems a poor look given he founded a campaign group against anti semitism Yes, I know. Then he should know better and know how it feels. I suspect he doesn't need to be told how he feels
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Post by johnloony on Jan 21, 2023 1:31:55 GMT
Lloyd Russell Moyle is the most disgusting piece of shit ever to 'grace' the HOC in my entire life. He uttely beneath all contempt and. Even worse than Jared O'Mara? Clement Freud? Cyril Smith? George Thomas? Elaine Kellett-Bowman? Numerous other spies, spivs, chancers, perverts (as you would call them), booliaks, nang-bandits and gucksplodges over te last 6 decades, yea even unto the 1950s?
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Post by mattbewilson on Jan 21, 2023 9:21:04 GMT
Lloyd Russell Moyle is the most disgusting piece of shit ever to 'grace' the HOC in my entire life. He uttely beneath all contempt and. Even worse than Jared O'Mara? Clement Freud? Cyril Smith? George Thomas? Elaine Kellett-Bowman? Numerous other spies, spivs, chancers, perverts (as you would call them), booliaks, nang-bandits and gucksplodges over te last 6 decades, yea even unto the 1950s? Janner in Leicester...
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Post by aargauer on Jan 21, 2023 9:44:00 GMT
Even worse than Jared O'Mara? Clement Freud? Cyril Smith? George Thomas? Elaine Kellett-Bowman? Numerous other spies, spivs, chancers, perverts (as you would call them), booliaks, nang-bandits and gucksplodges over te last 6 decades, yea even unto the 1950s? Janner in Leicester... Nothing actually proven.
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Post by mattbewilson on Jan 21, 2023 10:18:35 GMT
I used to support service users who were victims
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Post by carlton43 on Jan 21, 2023 10:27:53 GMT
Lloyd Russell Moyle is the most disgusting piece of shit ever to 'grace' the HOC in my entire life. He uttely beneath all contempt and. Even worse than Jared O'Mara? Clement Freud? Cyril Smith? George Thomas? Elaine Kellett-Bowman? Numerous other spies, spivs, chancers, perverts (as you would call them), booliaks, nang-bandits and gucksplodges over te last 6 decades, yea even unto the 1950s? Jarad had issues and hardly qualified to be caled an MP at all. He did very little here in Sheffield and he hardly ever went to Westminster. In his inner person I doubt he was anything like as nasty as Moyle. Smith was an abusive fat pervert using his various offices to satisfy his perversion and with more serious consequences than those caused by Moyle, but I don't think his ordinary character was as repellent as Moyle. Your other quoted MPs were fine and I have no problem at all with any of them over anything at all.
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Post by carlton43 on Jan 21, 2023 10:45:31 GMT
Yes, I know. Then he should know better and know how it feels. I suspect he doesn't need to be told how he feels Well, I think that he does. A legitimate difference of opinion between us.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,483
Member is Online
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Post by The Bishop on Jan 21, 2023 13:05:41 GMT
[Smith was an abusive fat pervert using his various offices to satisfy his perversion and with more serious consequences than those caused by Moyle, but I don't think his ordinary character was as repellent as MoyleGiven the former, does his "ordinary character" matter that much?
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Jan 21, 2023 13:14:26 GMT
attacking Barnaby over anti-Semitism in a trans row seems a poor look given he founded a campaign group against anti semitism Yes, I know. Then he should know better and know how it feels. The bullied becoming the bully is an almost perfect description for so many people in the Labour Party.
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Sibboleth
Labour
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Post by Sibboleth on Jan 21, 2023 13:15:34 GMT
Also the case with George Thomas as well - even more so, actually. At least in Janner's situation there was clearly a case to answer, even if it was murkier than often reported.
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Post by carlton43 on Jan 21, 2023 14:55:51 GMT
[Smith was an abusive fat pervert using his various offices to satisfy his perversion and with more serious consequences than those caused by Moyle, but I don't think his ordinary character was as repellent as MoyleGiven the former, does his "ordinary character" matter that much? I understand that resoning which is perfectly valid, but I do think that both points are quite separate and each matter. And I believe it to be valid to suggest Moyle is worse than Smith as a parliamentary person.
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Post by batman on Jan 21, 2023 20:16:31 GMT
Yes, I know. Then he should know better and know how it feels. The bullied becoming the bully is an almost perfect description for so many people in the Labour Party. says the bloke with the picture of a Russian general heavily involved in an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. I am sure Carlton's comment was intended to upset me, but if so it has failed. If someone with such bigoted views thinks my views are vile, I must be doing something right.
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Jan 21, 2023 21:31:49 GMT
The bullied becoming the bully is an almost perfect description for so many people in the Labour Party. says the bloke with the picture of a Russian general heavily involved in an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. I am sure Carlton's comment was intended to upset me, but if so it has failed. If someone with such bigoted views thinks my views are vile, I must be doing something right. This belongs in the Ukraine thread but the failure to implement Minsk and eight years of waging war against the DPR and LPR were certainly provocations, some would say justifications, for the invasion.
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Post by johnloony on Jan 22, 2023 0:03:34 GMT
says the bloke with the picture of a Russian general heavily involved in an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. I am sure Carlton's comment was intended to upset me, but if so it has failed. If someone with such bigoted views thinks my views are vile, I must be doing something right. This belongs in the Ukraine thread but the failure to implement Minsk and eight years of waging war against the DPR and LPR were certainly provocations, some would say justifications, for the invasion. Itmis physically and logically impossible for Ukraine to have “waged war against the DPR and LPR” because the DPR and LPR don’t exist. The things which call themselves the DPR and LPR are integral parts of the territory of Ukraine.
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Post by mattbewilson on Jan 22, 2023 0:19:35 GMT
Even if either weren't part of Ukraine or if they were annexed like Crimea. To suggest a war has been declared on them by Ukraine seems a fallacy
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