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Post by Merseymike on May 2, 2021 11:01:30 GMT
Surely recent elections have shown that the UUP has nowhere to go? It can't be as credible a vehicle for relatively social liberal / moderate people of Unionist background as Alliance, not have their potential for cross community support, and similarly it isn't going to be credible as a DUP alternative in the way that Traditional Ulster Voice might be, and now it's fallen behind Alliance, how could it reverse that, whether Arlene Foster joins or not? That's exactly what my Northern Irish friend days. He thinks with current events moderate Unionists are now more prepared for a united Ireland and that Alliance are best placed to gain their votes.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on May 2, 2021 11:12:08 GMT
Surely recent elections have shown that the UUP has nowhere to go? It can't be as credible a vehicle for relatively social liberal / moderate people of Unionist background as Alliance, not have their potential for cross community support, and similarly it isn't going to be credible as a DUP alternative in the way that Traditional Ulster Voice might be, and now it's fallen behind Alliance, how could it reverse that, whether Arlene Foster joins or not? We can't really tell, given that every time they say they're going to take a more moderate stance than the DUP, it lasts 6 months before the DUP and hardline elements of the UUP pressure them into falling into line. So the UUP does seem pointless, but it's more about the culture of the party than about whether there's space for a moderate unionist party.
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Post by relique on May 2, 2021 11:16:52 GMT
Surely recent elections have shown that the UUP has nowhere to go? It can't be as credible a vehicle for relatively social liberal / moderate people of Unionist background as Alliance, not have their potential for cross community support, and similarly it isn't going to be credible as a DUP alternative in the way that Traditional Ulster Voice might be, and now it's fallen behind Alliance, how could it reverse that, whether Arlene Foster joins or not? That's exactly what my Northern Irish friend days. He thinks with current events moderate Unionists are now more prepared for a united Ireland and that Alliance are best placed to gain their votes. And as long as Alliance doesn't declare itself from the unionist group, the nationalists have a path towards relative majority
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Post by MeirionGwril on May 2, 2021 15:22:56 GMT
That's exactly what my Northern Irish friend days. He thinks with current events moderate Unionists are now more prepared for a united Ireland and that Alliance are best placed to gain their votes. And as long as Alliance doesn't declare itself from the unionist group, the nationalists have a path towards relative majority Can you edit your sentence please, as I've no idea what you mean
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Post by greenchristian on May 2, 2021 15:39:37 GMT
And as long as Alliance doesn't declare itself from the unionist group, the nationalists have a path towards relative majority Can you edit your sentence please, as I've no idea what you mean Northern Irish parties declare themselves to be either unionist, nationalist, or other for the purposes of the power-sharing rules. relique is saying that as long as the Alliance Party don't switch to the unionist group, their gradual increase in the vote could easily lead to the nationalist parties having more seats than the unionist ones well before demographic changes lead to that outcome.
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on May 2, 2021 15:40:56 GMT
And as long as Alliance doesn't declare itself from the unionist group, the nationalists have a path towards relative majority Can you edit your sentence please, as I've no idea what you mean His meaning is perfectly clear to anybody who understands the basic workings of the Northern Ireland Assembly.
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Post by MeirionGwril on May 2, 2021 18:39:22 GMT
So 'declare itself from' is english for declare itself to be part of a group? You Saes sure have a funny way of using yr iaith fain!!
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Post by relique on May 2, 2021 18:49:23 GMT
So 'declare itself from' is english for declare itself to be part of a group? You Saes sure have a funny way of using yr iaith fain!! And "welsh" is my region's translation of "lourd" and "malodorant".
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Post by greenhert on May 2, 2021 19:19:14 GMT
Can you edit your sentence please, as I've no idea what you mean Northern Irish parties declare themselves to be either unionist, nationalist, or other for the purposes of the power-sharing rules. relique is saying that as long as the Alliance Party don't switch to the unionist group, their gradual increase in the vote could easily lead to the nationalist parties having more seats than the unionist ones well before demographic changes lead to that outcome.At Northern Ireland Assembly level you mean. This is already the case regarding the 18 parliamentary constituencies in Northern Ireland, with 9 nationalists (7 SF, 2 SDLP), 8 unionists (8 DUP) and 1 other (Alliance in North Down).
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on May 2, 2021 19:23:06 GMT
Northern Irish parties declare themselves to be either unionist, nationalist, or other for the purposes of the power-sharing rules. relique is saying that as long as the Alliance Party don't switch to the unionist group, their gradual increase in the vote could easily lead to the nationalist parties having more seats than the unionist ones well before demographic changes lead to that outcome.At Northern Ireland Assembly level you mean. This is already the case regarding the 18 parliamentary constituencies in Northern Ireland, with 9 nationalists (7 SF, 2 SDLP), 8 unionists (8 DUP) and 1 other (Alliance in North Down). IIRC Theresa May inadvertently bailed Foster out as the DUP performance at the last Assembly elections earlier in 2017 had led to grumbling about her leadership, but then the General Election came along, and their subsequent position of kingmakers relieved the leadership pressure.
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on May 2, 2021 19:26:18 GMT
So 'declare itself from' is english for declare itself to be part of a group?!! It was bad use of the English language but the meaning of his post was obvious.
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Post by greenchristian on May 2, 2021 19:36:41 GMT
So 'declare itself from' is english for declare itself to be part of a group? You Saes sure have a funny way of using yr iaith fain!! You should cut some slack on grammatical issues for people who have English as a second language, as is the case with our French member.
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Post by gwynthegriff on May 2, 2021 20:57:00 GMT
So 'declare itself from' is english for declare itself to be part of a group? You Saes sure have a funny way of using yr iaith fain!! You should cut some slack on grammatical issues for people who have English as a second language, as is the case with our French member. If we are engaging the Language Police may I point out that, to the best of my knowledge, the word "Saes" does not exist in the Welsh language. I assume that either "Sais" (Englishman) or "Saeson" (English people) was intended. Though Ffrancwr or Ffrancwyr would, I assume, have been accurate.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 2, 2021 21:22:31 GMT
So 'declare itself from' is english for declare itself to be part of a group? You Saes sure have a funny way of using yr iaith fain!! And "welsh" is my region's translation of "lourd" and "malodorant". Ou "Bécassine".
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Post by relique on May 2, 2021 21:34:43 GMT
And "welsh" is my region's translation of "lourd" and "malodorant". Ou "Bécassine". Well, not exactly. In the case of "welsh", I was alluding to a meal from my region with a slice of bread with mustard, with some ham, covered in melted-with-beer cheddar and an egg. It's called a "welsh", it's quite heavy on the stomach and not particularly appealing to anyone having a taste for real fromage.
For Bécassine, it's rather an attack on bretons (and I'm half a breton). Fun fact I have learnt a very short time ago, the word "plouc", a pejorative attack against "commoners" (it could be "hick" in the US) was a word used by parisians at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century because at the time, lots of bretons came to Paris (as there were less jobs in agriculture) to become very low-paid domestics or employees; as there are quite a few cities in Bretagne that start with "plou" (Plougastel, Plouharnel etc.), the parisians nicknamed them the "ploucs", Bécassine being the most famous plouc (a breton maid being quite stupid, quite religious but nice overall).
It is quite hard on the bretons, as "plou-" means "parish" in the breton language.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 2, 2021 21:47:45 GMT
relique, you learn something new every day. "Plouc"... I'll have to look that one up. The Walloons like to refer to somewhere in the sticks as being "Houte-si-Plou", although somewhat unfortunately that is the name of a real place.
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Post by spirit on May 2, 2021 23:20:47 GMT
Can you edit your sentence please, as I've no idea what you mean His meaning is perfectly clear to anybody who understands the basic workings of the Northern Ireland Assembly. No concession being made to those who don't then?
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neilm
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Post by neilm on May 3, 2021 15:23:57 GMT
His meaning is perfectly clear to anybody who understands the basic workings of the Northern Ireland Assembly. No concession being made to those who don't then? No surrender.
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on May 3, 2021 16:55:37 GMT
His meaning is perfectly clear to anybody who understands the basic workings of the Northern Ireland Assembly. No concession being made to those who don't then? This is a site dedicated to psephology. It is hardly unreasonable to expect people posting on here to understand the basics of the electoral system.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on May 3, 2021 19:11:27 GMT
No concession being made to those who don't then? This is a site dedicated to psephology. It is hardly unreasonable to expect people posting on here to understand the basics of the electoral system. It’s also hardly unreasonable, even encouraging, to recognise that some users may be less long travelled in their psephological journey and wanting and willing to learn. Treating them with respect and courtesy as opposed to arrogant disdain isn’t asking a lot for most people, although is in short supply on this site.
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