CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,233
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Post by CatholicLeft on Mar 28, 2021 9:08:37 GMT
Nice prediction. How/why did you make it? Well I knew he was from the nutter wing based on his anti-semitic comments, and also knew he was sceptical of trans reform and close to Cherry/Salmond. To be fair, unlike many others he underwent training on the issue of why what he tweeted was anti-semitic and seems to have truly regretted what he tweeted. We forgive others, why not him? Of interest is the defection of Cllr Lynne Anderson, the SNP National Equalities Convenor. Are we really to understand that to be sceptical of the SNP Trans agenda means leaving the SNP makes the party rejoice?
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,753
Member is Online
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Mar 29, 2021 17:20:18 GMT
There have been a number of tweets in recent hours, all of which have been poo pooed by the Twitterverse that Richard Burgon MP (Lab, Leeds East) was on the verge of announcing his defection to the Northern Independence Party with a by-election pending as he would stand down and contest his seat in his new colours.
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,233
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Post by CatholicLeft on Mar 29, 2021 17:26:12 GMT
There have been a number of tweets in recent hours, all of which have been poo pooed by the Twitterverse that Richard Burgon MP (Lab, Leeds East) was on the verge of announcing his defection to the Northern Independence Party with a by-election pending as he would stand down and contest his seat in his new colours. Fairly amusing - but he isn't going to do that.
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Post by timrollpickering on Mar 29, 2021 18:51:52 GMT
Has he actually denied it?
Things have got to the point where you really don't know what to believe anymore.
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Post by manchesterman on Mar 29, 2021 18:53:11 GMT
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 29, 2021 18:56:04 GMT
Has he actually denied it? Things have got to the point where you really don't know what to believe anymore. Again, given the source of this tweet, it sounds like a story about nothing.
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Post by timrollpickering on Mar 30, 2021 8:37:49 GMT
Meanwhile is the Alba Party meant to be a bold step forward in politics or a political rubbish bin?
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 30, 2021 9:16:47 GMT
Maybe they can get Eric Joyce to come across too
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,483
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 30, 2021 10:46:39 GMT
I mean, even the CHUKkers turned down Ian Austin......
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Post by rivers10 on Mar 30, 2021 10:50:14 GMT
Somebody really needs to legislate so that all defections automatically trigger a by election
Its honestly getting silly now this trend of crap MP's defecting to daft reject parties and wasting oxygen in the commons
I'm no fans of theirs but at least Carswell and Reckless had the backbone to trigger by elections
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,340
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Post by mboy on Mar 30, 2021 10:53:05 GMT
Somebody really needs to legislate so that all defections automatically trigger a by election No that's a genuinely terrible idea. It would mean any party could do literally anything and there would be no recourse to the nuclear option by any sitting MP. MPs are elected as *individuals* not as a party emblem.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,483
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 30, 2021 10:55:53 GMT
Yes I know that, and even on the whole agree, but the point made is still a reasonable one in its own way. The likes of Ferrier shouldn't still be MPs, simple as.
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 30, 2021 11:00:14 GMT
Yes I know that, and even on the whole agree, but the point made is still a reasonable one in its own way. The likes of Ferrier shouldn't still be MPs, simple as. Why? I think she's a hypocrite, sure, but so are many other MP's!
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,753
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Mar 30, 2021 11:01:44 GMT
Somebody really needs to legislate so that all defections automatically trigger a by election No that's a genuinely terrible idea. It would mean any party could do literally anything and there would be no recourse to the nuclear option by any sitting MP. MPs are elected as *individuals* not as a party emblem. Are they? How many people when polled say "I am voting for (surname of candidate)"? No, they say I am voting Conservative, I am voting Labour.
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,340
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Post by mboy on Mar 30, 2021 11:04:14 GMT
Yes I know that, and even on the whole agree, but the point made is still a reasonable one in its own way. The likes of Ferrier shouldn't still be MPs, simple as. That's what the recall procedure is for, and she didn't qualify as nothing she had done with serious enough.
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,340
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Post by mboy on Mar 30, 2021 11:06:11 GMT
No that's a genuinely terrible idea. It would mean any party could do literally anything and there would be no recourse to the nuclear option by any sitting MP. MPs are elected as *individuals* not as a party emblem. Are they? How many people when polled say "I am voting for (surname of candidate)"? No, they say I am voting Conservative, I am voting Labour. Peoples' voting motivations are entirely up to them. But they are electing an individual. I'll accept there is an argument that politicians elected by list mechanisms might reasonably be prevented from defecting so easily, but not direct constituency ones where people vote for a name.
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Post by rivers10 on Mar 30, 2021 11:23:32 GMT
Somebody really needs to legislate so that all defections automatically trigger a by election No that's a genuinely terrible idea. It would mean any party could do literally anything and there would be no recourse to the nuclear option by any sitting MP. MPs are elected as *individuals* not as a party emblem. Parties for the most part do do anything and most MP's toe the line, when they do defect it's nearly always for factional not moral reasons, this latest batch of Alba defections and the (no doubt daft) rumours around Burgon defecting to NIP are prime examples Also it's very unusual for a Lib Dem to trot out the long debunked line of defence for FPTP that the public elect individual MP's on their own merit, the vast majority of the public don't have a clue who their MP is and even less know who the other candidates are something that is roundly demonstrated when sitting MP's often contest their old seats and get evisecrated
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ilerda
Conservative
Posts: 1,023
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Post by ilerda on Mar 30, 2021 11:32:35 GMT
Defining a defection in practice could actually be quite difficult. Does having the whip removed count as a defection if it means you go to being independent? Does a party merger count as a defection, a la Liberal Democrats? Or what about a party name change? What if a party ceases to exist during a parliament and its MP(s) end up as independents?
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Post by timrollpickering on Mar 30, 2021 11:50:51 GMT
Defining a defection in practice could actually be quite difficult. Does having the whip removed count as a defection if it means you go to being independent? Does a party merger count as a defection, a la Liberal Democrats? Or what about a party name change? What if a party ceases to exist during a parliament and its MP(s) end up as independents? This was a serious problem in New Zealand when they had the rule for list MPs. There was an ACT MP who got thrown out of her party because of a scandal and court case ruled she had crossed the floor (or "jumped the waka") even though it was involuntary and so forfeited her seat. And there was the mess when the Alliance fell apart with Jim Anderton and a majority(?) of MPs forming the Progressive Party in the country but continuing to sit as Alliance MPs until a slighty early election ended the farce. I don't think anyone intended parties to be able to pick off troublesome MPs (although the ACT case was a financial scandal) but it shows the difficulties of operating such a law in practice.
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Post by ibfc on Mar 30, 2021 12:33:34 GMT
Somebody really needs to legislate so that all defections automatically trigger a by election Its honestly getting silly now this trend of crap MP's defecting to daft reject parties and wasting oxygen in the commons I'm no fans of theirs but at least Carswell and Reckless had the backbone to trigger by elections This can lead to disastrous outcomes. We have something similar in India and it has made the legislature into an absolute rubber stamp.
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