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Post by minionofmidas on Mar 13, 2022 20:42:36 GMT
www.rlp-wahlen.de/K7141/Some amusing details in the town-by-town results. eg Dahlheim didn't just give 80% to the local boy but also turned out at 70%.
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Post by minionofmidas on Mar 13, 2022 20:45:03 GMT
Very rural, poorish area - that I have family ties to. Gonna be some strongly personalist vote patterns. The SPD incumbent is standing down after just one (8 year, this is RhlP for some reason) term. There are only two candidates, SPD and CDU (co-endorsed by FW) so there won't be a runoff. The CDU candidate grew up in Dahlheim just like my mom's favorite grandparent, so I can't be too unhappy when he wins. In the nineteenth century, this area was one of the runners-up to the Eifel and Hunsrück as a watchword for rural poverty in Germany. Nassauer, all of them, amirite? (Bandit country if you go back to reall early in the 19th century. Schinderhannes was from here.)
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 13, 2022 21:09:35 GMT
In the nineteenth century, this area was one of the runners-up to the Eifel and Hunsrück as a watchword for rural poverty in Germany. Nassauer, all of them, amirite? (Bandit country if you go back to reall early in the 19th century. Schinderhannes was from here.) Banditry was of course replaced by exporting future Brazilians and then lengthy brooding dramatic series!
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on May 4, 2022 16:53:43 GMT
This sunDay (May 8th) will not only be the anniversary of the end of WWII together with a - probably boring - election in Schleswig-Holstein (the only interest might be, whether CDU&FDP achieve a majority alone and AfD gets into the LandTag); but also the runOff in MagdeburgCity. For over 100 years the city has always been ruled by Socialists (the inCumbent left the SPD for 1.5 years before rejoining it): ...but this time an Indy-woMan supported by FDP, an AnimalRights-Party and a local party is almost guaranteed to win. EC-site: wahlergebnisse.magdeburg.de
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Post by Pete Whitehead on May 9, 2022 10:13:22 GMT
I've been reading Norman Stone's short history of Hungary and he mentioned in passing ' a weird mountainous tip of Southern Bavaria, which had remained violently anti-clerical since the sixteenth century', this being the exception to the general rule that German Marxists won no votes amongst Peasants. This was in the 1890s but I know how historic patterns of voting can reverberate through the ages (especially with the clerical/anti-clerical divide in mainland Europe). Does anyone know what area was being referred to?
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 9, 2022 12:29:21 GMT
I've been reading Norman Stone's short history of Hungary and he mentioned in passing ' a weird mountainous tip of Southern Bavaria, which had remained violently anti-clerical since the sixteenth century', this being the exception to the general rule that German Marxists won no votes amongst Peasants. This was in the 1890s but I know how historic patterns of voting can reverberate through the ages (especially with the clerical/anti-clerical divide in mainland Europe). Does anyone know what area was being referred to? That's interesting. I'm not sure but it is probably somewhere where there was a strong BBB (Bavarian Farmers Union) vote-they had a secularist left wing led by a bloke called Gansdorfer, whose brother was a major SPD figure.
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Post by minionofmidas on May 9, 2022 13:29:21 GMT
The Bauernbund and SPD were allied in opposition in the Bavarian Landtag from the 1890s to the revolution (inclusive) and this was related to church as well as economical issues, but that doesn't make them Marxists. The SPD got its fair minority share among peasants in many parts of the country, anywhere in Bavaria certainly doesn't stick out. The Bauernbund's best results were in Lower Bavaria and in its plains bits at that.
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Post by Georg Ebner on May 9, 2022 17:56:33 GMT
I've been reading Norman Stone's short history of Hungary and he mentioned in passing ' a weird mountainous tip of Southern Bavaria, which had remained violently anti-clerical since the sixteenth century', this being the exception to the general rule that German Marxists won no votes amongst Peasants. This was in the 1890s but I know how historic patterns of voting can reverberate through the ages (especially with the clerical/anti-clerical divide in mainland Europe). Does anyone know what area was being referred to? Living quasi there, i would guess Reich-county HohenWaldeck around Miesbach, a very small territory (2-3.000 in the XVIIIth), whose rulers defected illegally to protestantism for a short period: Landtag-elections (for influencing the ReichsTag-const. really it was too small): 1849: 1893: "Marxism" seems very far-fetched, along the rivers were some proto-industrial mills (especially at the Lech [the borderRiver between Bavaria proper and Bavarian Swabia]), but that doesn't go back to the XVIth, when the area was in general the epiCentre of German CounterReformation. Already in the MiddleAges the landScape there had been established&dominated by the monasteries (different to Lower Bavaria, where wealthy farmers were decisive).
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Post by Georg Ebner on May 9, 2022 18:08:12 GMT
p.scr.: Far-fetched appears already "anti-clerical" - the county converted to protestantism not longer than 1561-1583 and was then solidly catholic again (at least officially/statistically). Still protestantic is "county" Ortenburg (~1.000 inHab.?), west of Passau, so too far away from the Alps.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on May 9, 2022 18:16:36 GMT
It's a shame we can't ask him. Miesbach seems like a good bet but he may have overstated his case (it was a passing comment). I expected you would be able to provide some useful background Georg
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on May 9, 2022 18:45:35 GMT
Stone had a habit of exaggerating things for effect, and sometimes even of flatly making stuff up. You know how there's a type of British conductor who has certain abilities and talent, yes, but is lazy and never does enough rehearsals? There's a similar tradition in the historical profession (including alleged luminaries like E.H. Carr), though it has been slowly dying out.
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Post by minionofmidas on May 9, 2022 19:17:09 GMT
Stone had a habit of exaggerating things for effect, and sometimes even of flatly making stuff up. You know how there's a type of British conductor who has certain abilities and talent, yes, but is lazy and never does enough rehearsals? There's a similar tradition in the historical profession (including alleged luminaries like E.H. Carr). to say nothing of British journalism.
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Post by minionofmidas on May 9, 2022 19:20:10 GMT
p.scr.: Far-fetched appears already "anti-clerical" - the county converted to protestantism not longer than 1561-1583 and was then solidly catholic again (at least officially/statistically). Still protestantic is "county" Ortenburg (~1.000 inHab.?), west of Passau, so too far away from the Alps. the largest prot enclave in Bavaria proper would be Sulzbach-Rosenberg (even further from the Alps) but they voted like stereotypical gentry-dominated East German countryside back in the Weimar days. Miesbach and esp Weilheim, otoh, did use to have somewhat elevated SPD results.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on May 9, 2022 19:42:29 GMT
It wasn't a particularly well written book to be honest
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 10, 2022 9:25:03 GMT
The high-point of Prod enclaves in Bavaria was probably 1945-1960, when refugees from the east (particularly religiously-mixed Silesia and from surprisingly mixed Sudeten areas) turned up in numbers. But the Wirtschaftswunder and the need for labour in the cities forced an integration in the years that followed. Mind you, you can say the same about what went on in NRW, S-H (which had the most refugees as a proportion of its population).
But there are still new towns in Bavaria set up for the expellees which possibly have a plurality if not majority from löst Protestant areas. Geretsried near Bad Tölz, or Neugablonz (which means New Gablonz, that being a town in the Sudetenland).
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Post by Georg Ebner on May 10, 2022 14:08:32 GMT
The high-point of Prod enclaves in Bavaria was probably 1945-1960, when refugees from the east (particularly religiously-mixed Silesia and from surprisingly mixed Sudeten areas) turned up in numbers. But the Wirtschaftswunder and the need for labour in the cities forced an integration in the years that followed. Mind you, you can say the same about what went on in NRW, S-H (which had the most refugees as a proportion of its population). But there are still new towns in Bavaria set up for the expellees which possibly have a plurality if not majority from löst Protestant areas. Geretsried near Bad Tölz, or Neugablonz (which means New Gablonz, that being a town in the Sudetenland). "Majority" would be an exAggeration: I don't have numbers for NeuGablonz, as it was part of Kaufbeuren (the latter was 1970 prot.:cath.=21.0%:72.4%); but those for New Municipalities: GeretsRied 25.6%:66.6%, NeuTraubling near Regensburg 20%:73.8% (with the surRounding being cath. all together in the high 90ies, of course), Traunreut/TraunStein [very close to me...] 28.3%:62.8%, WaldKraiBurg near [exSalzburgian...] MühlDorf/Inn 19.0%:73.4%. No wonder, as in present-day Czechia only Asch (the far NW-corner) had once a prot. majority, the others only a substantial minority here and there:
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Post by Georg Ebner on May 10, 2022 14:27:14 GMT
p.scr.: Far-fetched appears already "anti-clerical" - the county converted to protestantism not longer than 1561-1583 and was then solidly catholic again (at least officially/statistically). Still protestantic is "county" Ortenburg (~1.000 inHab.?), west of Passau, so too far away from the Alps. the largest prot enclave in Bavaria proper would be Sulzbach-Rosenberg (even further from the Alps) but they voted like stereotypical gentry-dominated East German countryside back in the Weimar days. Miesbach and esp Weilheim, otoh, did use to have somewhat elevated SPD results. Map of 1970, the prot. villages are those in pink (and few more in orange around them, which can not be detected on this scan, i am sorry): 1970 all in all 12.235 inHabitants. I knew a protestant philosophy-professor from there, Walter Neidl, who converted to Catholicism. I can imagine the proud of those backward farmers, that one of them became professor and then this! And while the population were brave protestants, their rulers were not even that (at least not in the Baroque) - instead they were infamous for their heteroDoxy and those few hamlets were full of magicians and urban & highly erudite heretics persecuted everywhere else. The atmosphere must have been very ... special.
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on May 14, 2022 18:19:11 GMT
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Post by Georg Ebner on May 15, 2022 19:10:01 GMT
In Marburg-Biedenkopf the first round ended 39% CDU, 31% SPD, 19% Greens, 4% Left, 3% FDP aso.. The SPD-candidate will surely win in the RunOff. M.-B. is ~6% to the left of WestGermany, thus 54% lefties vs. 42% for CDU&FDP means 48%:48%, so the same ratio as was last fall in WestD. Happened also in an other recent district-election (across the Rhine).
In Bavaria the CSU won DeggenDorf outright (52.84%, 26.12% FW, 8.07% Greens, 6.59% SPD, 6.39% AfD). In Dillingen, where FW received last time a huge majority, it ended 48.2% FW, 45.3% CSU, 6.5% AfD; giving the CSU-challenger chances.
All in all satisfying results for the Union, not so for the others and a very bad one for TheLeft.
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jun 13, 2022 0:36:05 GMT
Overshadowed by France&Italy Saxony elected its district-presidents & mayors. Unsurprisingly CDU remained dominant in most rural districts. AfD was strong especially in the east, FW more in the west. Mayors so far: FDP having had fairly many (Dresden would de facto be among them). TheLeft being only a shadow of its past.
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