Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 9,843 
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Post by Crimson King on Oct 23, 2012 15:57:11 GMT
They might want to argue that they continue to support the policies upon which they were elected and it is the other SNP list MSP who should stand down or change allegiance. on a more serious point, what they 'should do' is neither here nor there. They were elected under a system with rules and if those rules say you keep your seat if you defect then they are entitled to sit tight Perhaps I should have phrased it better then to indicate that in my opinion the rules should stipulate that a list MP who defects from the party they were elected for should forfeit their seat. I feel particularly strongly about this as I a find myself represented by a Conservative MEP who owes his place to the fact that thousands of people including me voted for UKIP  Thats fair enough. probably all that would happen would be that disgruntled msps/meps would keep the party label and vote as they like. They might get thrown out of thier original party if they did, but if they then lost their seat you open a whole new can of worms (not to say legal challenges etc) |
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Post by timrollpickering on Oct 23, 2012 16:14:02 GMT
Indeed some years ago New Zealand tried to ban floor crossing, or "waka jumping", at least amongst list members. However it created odd results such as when the Alliance, an electoral coalition of left-wing parties, split with Jim Anderton and supportes being expelled and going off to form the Progressive Party. However he and fellow Progressive MPs remained in the Alliance caucus until the election to avoid falling afoul of the Electoral Integrity Act (Anderton had been a strong supporter of the legislation!). There was also an ACT list MP expelled from the party and eventually a court removed her from parliament under the legislation. The rule has since been repealed.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Oct 23, 2012 17:39:37 GMT
Cllr Brian Silvester (former Leader & Mayor of Crewe & Nantwich BC, and Deputy Leader of Cheshire East BC), currently suspended from the Conservative Group having pleaded guilty on charges relating to bedsits and fire safety, today fined £45,000 + £22,000.
Not a defection I know, but now likely to be expelled from Conservatives?
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Post by No Offence Alan on Oct 23, 2012 18:26:37 GMT
If some-one defects from a party, then the party should take sanctions against the numpties who sat on their "candidate approval" panel, or equivalent.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 18:43:50 GMT
really ?? who can guess who would defect at selection stage. In the case of the SNP lot they defected because the SNP gone back on a long standing pledge (rightly so).
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Post by iainbhx on Oct 23, 2012 19:38:13 GMT
really ?? who can guess who would defect at selection stage. In the case of the SNP lot they defected because the SNP gone back on a long standing pledge (rightly so). You can sometimes get an inkling, but in general, I would agree with you. |
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Post by erlend on Oct 23, 2012 20:18:41 GMT
Having had my fingers in PPC approvals although only as a volunteer bureaucrat rather than as an approver there have been cases when the madness of candidates was apparent to me but missed by the panel. Bu madness I mean out of line with party values and beliefs. I remember one case eons ago where the candidate had to be delisted after selection. Not in a vital seat though. The beliefs will of course vary from party to party. The problem in the SMP case of course is when the belief changes. And before anyone else mentions it I will say tuition fees. On which a number of 2010 candidates are no longer with us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 20:25:52 GMT
There are some core values people join for and you only have to look at us pre and post Iraq
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Post by ailean on Oct 23, 2012 21:12:33 GMT
Frances McGlinchey, Strathkelvin ward on North Lanarkshire Council. SNP - Independent Partner of John Wilson MSP (SNP) NATO again? I believe so |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Oct 24, 2012 9:28:24 GMT
Having had my fingers in PPC approvals although only as a volunteer bureaucrat rather than as an approver there have been cases when the madness of candidates was apparent to me but missed by the panel. Bu madness I mean out of line with party values and beliefs. I remember one case eons ago where the candidate had to be delisted after selection. Not in a vital seat though. The beliefs will of course vary from party to party. The problem in the SMP case of course is when the belief changes. And before anyone else mentions it I will say tuition fees. On which a number of 2010 candidates are no longer with us. And sometimes it's obvious to the panel, but the need for candidates is such that they have to take the risk. That's less of an issue with PPCs, but it does happen - some of the worst 2010 Labour candidates were those hurriedly imposed just before the election that never was. Whilst the party is certainly liable for refusing CLP requests to remove those candidates and replace them with individuals who weren't grotesquely unsuitable, the initial imposition was not entirely avoidable. |
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Post by marksenior on Oct 24, 2012 10:19:55 GMT
There are some core values people join for and you only have to look at us pre and post Iraq Sorry do not follow this statement . Are you saying that post Iraq people who joined Labour have the core value of waging war at America's behest . |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2012 12:18:13 GMT
There are some core values people join for and you only have to look at us pre and post Iraq Sorry do not follow this statement . Are you saying that post Iraq people who joined Labour have the core value of waging war at America's behest . no we lost people, a lot of people, post IRaq and because of IRaq. Just the same as LD's over Tutition fees, same as the SNP and probably Tories over Europe. |
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
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Post by Tony Otim on Oct 24, 2012 12:26:57 GMT
Given that the focus is one criticizing these MSPs for defecting and bearing in mind that I disagree with them on almost every serious issue, I would wish to place on record my admiration for their principled stand. [b ]They were 1+2 on the list,[/b] so a very strong chance of re-election even if the SNP slip backwards next time, they have sacrificed that on a point of principle. It is not their fault that we have a list system. [/quote] Factually incorrect - they were 5 and 6 on the list. Nos. 1-4 were all elected in constituencies. If the SNP were to slip back they would either likely lose constituemcies or be entitled to fewer list seats, meaning their chances of re-election are much less than you claim. However, I do think that they have made a principled stand and I do admire them for that. |
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Tony Otim
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Post by Tony Otim on Oct 24, 2012 12:43:42 GMT
Correct order was:
1. Fergus Ewing
2. Mike Russell
3. Dave Thomson
4. Rob Gibson
5. John Finnie
6. Jean Urquhart
7. Mike MacKenzie
8. Mhairi Will
9. Drew Hendry
10 Richard Laird
11. Bren Gormley
Mike MacKenzie is probably the biggest winner here in terms of a massive increase in his chances of remaining an MSP.
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Post by timrollpickering on Oct 25, 2012 1:23:28 GMT
How do the SNP reselect? Do incumbents get ringfenced at the top of the list or is it a free for all?
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Post by No Offence Alan on Oct 25, 2012 6:18:34 GMT
How do the SNP reselect? Do incumbents get ringfenced at the top of the list or is it a free for all? It's a free-for-all. Margo McDonald dropped down the list pre-2003 to a (then) unwinnable position. This triggered her standing as an independent. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2012 17:16:30 GMT
In 2003, when Margo was dropped down the list, only delegates to Constituency/Regional Associations could vote in the rankings. From 2007 onwards, it became an all-member ballot. There remains no ring-fencing.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Oct 25, 2012 23:24:56 GMT
Margo believes herself to be the victim of an organised plan to downgrade her. They also selected her for an (unwinnable) constituency. It came over as score settling. There is no other explanation given that Margo was a high profile and popular list MSP. That has been proved by her relections in 2003, 2007, and 2011. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2012 1:58:02 GMT
I've a lot of time for Margo, but it's still a bit of a mystery to me how she keeps getting re-elected and who actually votes for her.
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Tony Otim
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Post by Tony Otim on Oct 26, 2012 10:51:34 GMT
I've a lot of time for Margo, but it's still a bit of a mystery to me how she keeps getting re-elected and who actually votes for her. I reckon she draws just about enough support from across the political spectrum to get in without really impacting anybody else's vote. |
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