Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,901
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Post by Tony Otim on Oct 23, 2012 10:23:14 GMT
SNP Highland List MSPs Jean Urquhart and John Finnie to Independent due to the change in the party policy on Nato membership SNP Scottish Parliamentary Group now 65 They should join the Greens They wouldn't be allowed to sit as Greens in the Scottish Parliament until they had been elected as such - party rules. |
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Post by iainbhx on Oct 23, 2012 10:37:25 GMT
They should join the Greens They wouldn't be allowed to sit as Greens in the Scottish Parliament until they had been elected as such - party rules. Good for the Greens on that one. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 23, 2012 10:46:32 GMT
Yes good for the Greens but also as list MSPs they have no personal mandate anyway so they should forfeit their seats to the next couple of people on the SNP list
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,901
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Post by Tony Otim on Oct 23, 2012 10:59:17 GMT
Yes good for the Greens but also as list MSPs they have no personal mandate anyway so they should forfeit their seats to the next couple of people on the SNP list Does anyone have any idea who that would be - the top 4 on the Highlands list all won their constituencies. In addition to Finnie and Urquhart, Mike Mackenzie was also elected. So at a minimum you would be looking at 8 and 9 on the list. I can't remember if Richard Lochead (Moray) and Alasdair Allan (Western Isles) were on the list as well, in which case you could be down to places 10 and 11. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 11:05:25 GMT
That just screams "Highlands and Islands by-election, 2013" to me.  |
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,901
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Post by Tony Otim on Oct 23, 2012 11:09:09 GMT
Yes good for the Greens but also as list MSPs they have no personal mandate anyway so they should forfeit their seats to the next couple of people on the SNP list Does anyone have any idea who that would be - the top 4 on the Highlands list all won their constituencies. In addition to Finnie and Urquhart, Mike Mackenzie was also elected. So at a minimum you would be looking at 8 and 9 on the list. I can't remember if Richard Lochead (Moray) and Alasdair Allan (Western Isles) were on the list as well, in which case you could be down to places 10 and 11. To answer my own question, it would be Mhairi Will (8th on the list) and Drew Hendry (9). Intererestingly No. 10 on the list is Richard Laird, who I believe is known as RDL in these parts. |
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Post by ailean on Oct 23, 2012 11:40:17 GMT
Drew Hendry is the leader of Highland Council and Richard, as you have correctly identified, is a councillor in Inverness.
I agree with you on the lack of personal mandate but can't see them giving up their seats.
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Post by greatkingrat on Oct 23, 2012 11:43:25 GMT
If you take the view that a SNP list member must always support the SNP, then you might as well scrap the list members completely and just give their votes directly to the party leader.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 12:29:22 GMT
It'll be interesting to see if anybody else follows suit. It's hardly a secret that the SNP are about three parties in one.
I'd be surprised if they were to try and join the Greens, but there may well be a related outcome, which is that these two plus the two Greens and Margo could potentitally form an informal grouping of five MSPs which would be enough to gain representation on the Parliamentary Bureau and have a regular slot at First Minister's Questions.
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Post by timrollpickering on Oct 23, 2012 12:40:59 GMT
Do the Scottish Parliament's rules allow for technical groups to be recognised?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 12:41:52 GMT
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922 
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Oct 23, 2012 14:09:09 GMT
Yes good for the Greens but also as list MSPs they have no personal mandate anyway so they should forfeit their seats to the next couple of people on the SNP list Does anyone have any idea who that would be - the top 4 on the Highlands list all won their constituencies. In addition to Finnie and Urquhart, Mike Mackenzie was also elected. So at a minimum you would be looking at 8 and 9 on the list. I can't remember if Richard Lochead (Moray) and Alasdair Allan (Western Isles) were on the list as well, in which case you could be down to places 10 and 11. Here's the SNP list for the Highlands and Islands and what happened to them: 1. John Finnie (elected first on list, defect to Ind) 2. Jean Urquhart (elected second on list, defect to Ind) 3. Mike MacKenzie (elected third on list) 4. Fergus Ewing (elected Inverness) 5. Michael Russell (elected Argyll and Bute) 6. Dave Thompson (elected Skye) 7. Rob Gibson (elected Caithness) 8. Mhairi Will 9. Drew Hendry 10. Richard Laird If they were to stand down, then positions 8 and 9 would be elected (assuming that is that they still wanted to be elected). If both didn't (and number 10 didn't either) then I am not entirely sure what would happen (but am sure that a by-election would be rejected by Rhoda Grant MSP (Lab), Dave Stewart MSP (Lab) and Mary Scanlon MSP (Con) |
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Post by timrollpickering on Oct 23, 2012 14:18:09 GMT
I think the seat is left vacant - didn't Margo have a slate of mates to cover this? - but surely a by-election would only be for the vacant seats? Otherwise an opportunistic or disruptive party could try forcing by-elections whenever it felt like it.
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 9,843
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Post by Crimson King on Oct 23, 2012 14:21:44 GMT
Yes good for the Greens but also as list MSPs they have no personal mandate anyway so they should forfeit their seats to the next couple of people on the SNP list They might want to argue that they continue to support the policies upon which they were elected and it is the other SNP list MSP who should stand down or change allegiance. on a more serious point, what they 'should do' is neither here nor there. They were elected under a system with rules and if those rules say you keep your seat if you defect then they are entitled to sit tight |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 14:27:05 GMT
I believe the SNP would select a replacement if the list runs out?
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andrea
Non-Aligned
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Post by andrea on Oct 23, 2012 14:33:46 GMT
I think Tim is right and the seat remains vacant. Scotland Act 1998 says 10 Regional vacancies. (1)This section applies where the seat of a regional member is vacant. (2)If the regional member was returned as an individual candidate, or the vacancy is not filled in accordance with the following provisions, the seat shall remain vacant until the next general election.3)If the regional member was returned (under section 8 or this section) from a registered political party’s regional list, the regional returning officer shall notify the Presiding Officer of the name of the person who is to fill the vacancy. [F1[F2(4)The regional returning officer shall ascertain from that party's regional list the name and address of the person whose name appears highest on that list (“the first choice”) and shall take such steps as appear to him to be reasonable to contact the first choice to ask whether he will— (a)state in writing that he is willing and able to serve as a regional member for that region; and (b)deliver a certificate signed by or on behalf of the nominating officer of the registered party which submitted that regional list stating that the first choice may be returned as a regional member from that list. (4A)Where— (a)within such period as the regional returning officer considers reasonable— (i)he decides that the steps he has taken to contact the first choice have been unsuccessful; or (ii)he has not received from that person the statement and certificate referred to in subsection (4); or (b)the first choice has— (i)stated in writing that he is not willing to serve as a regional member for that region; or (ii)failed to deliver the certificate referred to in subsection (4)(b), the regional returning officer shall repeat the procedure required by subsection (4) in respect of the person (if any) whose name appears next in that list (“the second choice”) or, where paragraph (a) or (b) of this subsection applies in respect of that person, in respect of the person (if any) whose name appears next highest after the second choice in that list; and the regional returning officer shall continue to repeat the procedure until the regional returning officer has notified the Presiding Officer of the name of the person who is to fill the vacancy or the names in the list are exhausted. (5)Where a person whose name appears on that list provides the statement and certificate referred to in subsection (4), the regional returning officer shall notify to the Presiding Officer the name of that person. www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/46/section/10 |
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Post by ailean on Oct 23, 2012 14:53:44 GMT
Frances McGlinchey, Strathkelvin ward on North Lanarkshire Council. SNP - Independent
Partner of John Wilson MSP (SNP)
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Post by AdminSTB on Oct 23, 2012 15:13:50 GMT
Frances McGlinchey, Strathkelvin ward on North Lanarkshire Council. SNP - Independent Partner of John Wilson MSP (SNP) NATO again? |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 23, 2012 15:36:09 GMT
Yes good for the Greens but also as list MSPs they have no personal mandate anyway so they should forfeit their seats to the next couple of people on the SNP list They might want to argue that they continue to support the policies upon which they were elected and it is the other SNP list MSP who should stand down or change allegiance. on a more serious point, what they 'should do' is neither here nor there. They were elected under a system with rules and if those rules say you keep your seat if you defect then they are entitled to sit tight Perhaps I should have phrased it better then to indicate that in my opinion the rules should stipulate that a list MP who defects from the party they were elected for should forfeit their seat. I feel particularly strongly about this as I a find myself represented by a Conservative MEP who owes his place to the fact that thousands of people including me voted for UKIP  |
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Post by AdminSTB on Oct 23, 2012 15:40:41 GMT
I can sympathise with wanting to kick out defecting list MSPs. The main issue with that is it then means parties can get rid of their list MSPs at any time by just kicking them out of the party, so you end up with a bunch of yes-men who feel they have to toe the line at all times else they're out of a job.
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