albion
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Post by albion on Jul 1, 2017 16:57:47 GMT
Any position is 'respecting' the result, and a referendum result is no more sacrosanct than a general election result, which you'd have us devolve into a one-party state following this ludicrous thinking. Let me remind you that the only way any anti-Brexit majority would come about is through democracy. What on earth are you talking about? Are the Lib Dems now revoking democracy because they want to represent a section of the electorate who are anti-Brexit, and hope to win more over to that position? Let's make this simple, just because a couple of million people want something (reversing a referendum or more power to a unaccountable supranational bureaucracy) doesn't mean it's automatically democratic. Just because a view wants less democratic control in running the state, as you do in this case, does not make it illegitimate. There are plenty of times I think more democracy is not the best answer, and I think that applies to most people. Iain Dale is right to call Remainers undemocratic, as they want less democracy. He would be wrong to say that their views were illegitimate, but he didn't. This has to be one of the most incoherent posts ever. A position by the LDs that the final deal should be the subject of a referendum is no more undemocratic than the initial vote. Either the people approve the deal or they do not. Either way the people have the final say. As for Dale; a man who was formally cautioned by the police for assaulting a pensioner exercising his democratic rights can hardly pose as an expert on the subject.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jul 1, 2017 18:51:05 GMT
Any position is 'respecting' the result, and a referendum result is no more sacrosanct than a general election result, which you'd have us devolve into a one-party state following this ludicrous thinking. Let me remind you that the only way any anti-Brexit majority would come about is through democracy. What on earth are you talking about? Are the Lib Dems now revoking democracy because they want to represent a section of the electorate who are anti-Brexit, and hope to win more over to that position? Let's make this simple, just because a couple of million people want something (reversing a referendum or more power to a unaccountable supranational bureaucracy) doesn't mean it's automatically democratic. Just because a view wants less democratic control in running the state, as you do in this case, does not make it illegitimate. There are plenty of times I think more democracy is not the best answer, and I think that applies to most people. Iain Dale is right to call Remainers undemocratic, as they want less democracy. He would be wrong to say that their views were illegitimate, but he didn't. No we don't. Complete nonsense and a prime example of begging the question in its original sense. Demonstrate that the European Commission has no democratic control and you may have a case, but you have not dome so. There's absolutely no reason at all why being in the EU has to involve less democratic control in the running of the state at all, there is a European parliament and Council made up of the representatives of democratically elected national parliaments. It is also the case that in the modern world democracy is not only about exercising control over the executive of the state but also over multi-national corporations. There is a strong argument that no European nation is large enough to do so without co-operating with other nations and the EU provides a forum to do so. Whereas anyone who maintains that a vote taken at a particular date should be indefinitely binding is arguing for democracy to cease from that date on.
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right
Conservative
Posts: 8,830
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Post by right on Jul 2, 2017 21:46:16 GMT
Iain Dale has this interesting snippet: Is this actually true? Iain Dale has in the past fought Norman Lamb, so is he saying that Cable is more accepting of the referendum than Lamb? I vaguely remember some talk about EU immigration needing to be lower, but with that important caveat I thought that Cable was a bog standard Continuity Remainer - at least in Lib Dem terms. The Lib Dems could quite easily carve out a niche - at least in England - of being the most pro-European of the mainstream parties while actually ditching second referendums and hopes of rejoining in the next decade - and there doesn't look like there will be a bidding war for members' votes to get in the way of that. The Remainers have nowhere else to go. But even assuming Cable is more Eurosceptic than other Lib Dems, would he as a caretaker who's not stood for election be able to pull that shift off? Returning to the actual subject of the thread Vince Cable sets out his views on Brexit, immigration and freedom of movementAn interesting point is this: This seems like a small retreat from the re-referendum line. He still wants to be in the EU, but is asking for what (in this timeframe) is pretty unlikely - free movement reform within the EU within two years.
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right
Conservative
Posts: 8,830
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Post by right on Jul 4, 2017 16:48:23 GMT
This seems to be pointing towards some form of soft Brexit: Desperate May asks Lib Dems for help to win crucial votesLabour would probably be more amenable on Brexit votes as Lib Dems still seem in a bit of a funk and Labour has to prove itself a government in waiting, but you can't have Corbyn looking too Prime Ministerial.
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cogload
Lib Dem
You are my life support, my IRRROOOONNNNN LUUUNNNGGGG
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Lib Dems
Jul 4, 2017 17:59:42 GMT
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Post by cogload on Jul 4, 2017 17:59:42 GMT
The Labour party will support the Tories on the undead Repeal Bill apparently. Panic over.
I don't know why people are flobbering over this. Corbyn is as pro Brexit as Bill Cash.
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right
Conservative
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Lib Dems
Jul 4, 2017 21:32:27 GMT
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Post by right on Jul 4, 2017 21:32:27 GMT
The Labour party will support the Tories on the undead Repeal Bill apparently. Panic over. I don't know why people are flobbering over this. Corbyn is as pro Brexit as Bill Cash. His party and constituency ain't. Besides, there are plenty of chances for Labour and the SNP to get together with backbench Eurosceptics.
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boogieeck
Scottish Whig
Whig Unionist. British by Right of Birth. Scots by the Grace of God
Posts: 19,296
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Post by boogieeck on Aug 6, 2017 10:33:05 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40842017possibly discussed elsewhere but given my (today) rant about the young being shafted on motoring insurance , I would be remiss not to note that youthful Vince Cable is also seeking to address the issue of intergenerational justice.
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right
Conservative
Posts: 8,830
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Post by right on Sept 5, 2017 12:54:42 GMT
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albion
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,270
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Post by albion on Sept 5, 2017 14:18:45 GMT
If this is the worst the Mirror can come up with (and the worst in store at LD conference) Labour and Conservative parties will be looking on in envy and quaking at the splits to be seen at their annual feuds.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 19, 2018 16:09:06 GMT
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Post by offshore on Oct 19, 2018 16:21:51 GMT
I don't think this belongs in the Brexit forum.
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mboy
Lib Dem
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 12,160
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Post by mboy on Oct 19, 2018 16:25:18 GMT
Looks like Aimee Challenor will fit well in to today's Lib Dems.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Oct 19, 2018 16:36:47 GMT
Not happy about this at all.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 19, 2018 16:42:34 GMT
I don't think this belongs in the Brexit forum. You're right, I went searching for a Lib Dem thread, couldn't find a suitable one, and didn't spot the Brexit bit in my rush. I'll re-post somewhere else.
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slon
Non-Aligned
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Post by slon on Oct 19, 2018 16:48:26 GMT
I don't think this belongs in the Brexit forum. I don't think the Lib Dems belong in the Brexit forum
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Post by offshore on Oct 19, 2018 16:58:42 GMT
I don't think this belongs in the Brexit forum. I don't think the Lib Dems belong in the Brexit forum
We need a vote on that
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Post by offshore on Oct 19, 2018 16:59:13 GMT
I don't think this belongs in the Brexit forum. You're right, I went searching for a Lib Dem thread, couldn't find a suitable one, and didn't spot the Brexit bit in my rush. I'll re-post somewhere else. Thought that might be the case
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Post by finsobruce on Oct 19, 2018 17:50:10 GMT
I don't think the Lib Dems belong in the Brexit forum
We need a vote on that Or possibly two.
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Post by No Offence Alan on Oct 19, 2018 17:51:49 GMT
I don't think the Lib Dems belong in the Brexit forum We need a vote on that And then a second one if we don't like the answer.
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Post by offshore on Oct 19, 2018 17:55:31 GMT
Glad to see people know a feed line when they see it
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