iain
Lib Dem
Posts: 10,808
Member is Online
|
Post by iain on Mar 17, 2017 14:14:43 GMT
Apparently, not only did the PvdA not top the poll in a single municipality, they didn't come second anywhere either. Indeed, they only broke 10% in 8 municipalities, making it over 11% in only one of these, the small Frisian island of Terschelling.
|
|
|
Post by BossMan on Mar 17, 2017 16:22:53 GMT
Apparently, not only did the PvdA not top the poll in a single municipality, they didn't come second anywhere either. Or third I understand.
|
|
|
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Mar 17, 2017 16:37:21 GMT
Labour deserved what was coming to them. Green Left are closer to my own politics anyway and it's interesting how there are so many parties with credible votes and distinctive platforms. For those of us wanting more distinct parties, the Dutch elections are a refreshing experience! Dutch politics, not so much. I can't see the appeal of a PR system which doesn't mean anything more than a wider spread of parties making the exact same decisions.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,777
Member is Online
|
Post by The Bishop on Mar 17, 2017 16:44:29 GMT
Apparently, not only did the PvdA not top the poll in a single municipality, they didn't come second anywhere either. Or third I understand. I can only respond "wow", really.
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 17, 2017 23:17:47 GMT
Just wait until Urk declares. Urk SGP 56.1% CDA 14.2% CU 11.6% PVV 11.0% everyone else below 2% Has anyone here been there? No, that's why they vote SGP.
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Mar 17, 2017 23:32:31 GMT
What I found striking - but few have mentioned it - is that although Wilders gained 5 seats compared to 2012, he has actually done worse than in the 2010 election when he got 23 seats. And that was long before the era of Trump, Brexit and the populist wave. VVD didn't campaign on minorities to "be normal or get out" back then, or use a term like kopvodden (head rag) in their campaign, even the CDA went soft nationalist on some issues this time. When the established centre-right starts to play tunes from the right wing populist playbook there is less space for the real deal. FvD also didn't exist back then. Memories of the days when British PM's talked about being 'rather swamped' by immigrants
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Mar 17, 2017 23:34:23 GMT
Apparently, not only did the PvdA not top the poll in a single municipality, they didn't come second anywhere either. That's what happens when you go into coalition with a right wing party and enthusiastically support every part of their programme even after pledging not to go into government with them
|
|
mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,443
|
Post by mboy on Mar 18, 2017 0:33:17 GMT
For those of us wanting more distinct parties, the Dutch elections are a refreshing experience! Dutch politics, not so much. I can't see the appeal of a PR system which doesn't mean anything more than a wider spread of parties making the exact same decisions. They really need a 5% threshold.
|
|
mazuz
Conservative
Posts: 155
|
Post by mazuz on Mar 18, 2017 1:25:16 GMT
Apparently, not only did the PvdA not top the poll in a single municipality, they didn't come second anywhere either. Or third I understand. They came third on the West Frisian island of Terschelling with 11.7%.
|
|
Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 15,356
|
Post by Sibboleth on Mar 18, 2017 1:27:49 GMT
Apt.
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 18, 2017 9:49:30 GMT
Dutch politics, not so much. I can't see the appeal of a PR system which doesn't mean anything more than a wider spread of parties making the exact same decisions. They really need a 5% threshold. Even a 3% threshold might focus some minds. They're going to end up with a mish mash that will then collapse within two years, whilst being surrounded by testimonial parties, weirdos, cranks and Erdo-fans. What would be best if they want to keep the current threshold would be to introduce the concept of the constructive vote of no confidence.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,777
Member is Online
|
Post by The Bishop on Mar 18, 2017 10:57:38 GMT
They came third on the West Frisian island of Terschelling with 11.7%. Also their highest share anywhere. How are the mighty fallen, indeed.
|
|
mazuz
Conservative
Posts: 155
|
Post by mazuz on Mar 18, 2017 13:35:26 GMT
A threshold is a terrible idea that runs counter to Dutch political culture in which all voices are heard. Part of the reason why we got 81% turnout is that people have the idea they can pick a party that truly represents them. Let's not take that away. Our political system is working. There are some challenges, but that's normal and our system is flexible enough to deal with them. Besides, the small parties are not the reason why we need four parties for a majority -- the fragmentation among larger parties is.
I am a big supporter of forming a minority government of VVD-CDA-D66 and looking for majorities on a case-by-case basis, but it's probably going to be VVD-CDA-D66-CU. Jesse Klaver is already giving clear signs he will be in opposition. D66 are screwed. If GL had 5 more seats and VVD 5 fewer things would be different.
|
|
Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 15,356
|
Post by Sibboleth on Mar 18, 2017 15:13:37 GMT
D66 with about three seats at the next election it is then.
|
|
mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,443
|
Post by mboy on Mar 18, 2017 15:42:22 GMT
It would be nice if the public could get it into their head that minor parties in a coalition will inevitably have to make more compromise than the major parties(s)...
|
|
Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 15,356
|
Post by Sibboleth on Mar 18, 2017 15:45:05 GMT
Oh sometimes the Dutch randomly decide the hammer the leading coalition party as well. Ask the CDA a few elections back.
|
|
Foggy
Non-Aligned
Long may it rain
Posts: 5,546
|
Post by Foggy on Mar 18, 2017 15:48:09 GMT
They really need a 5% threshold. What would be best if they want to keep the current threshold would be to introduce the concept of the constructive vote of no confidence. I can't remember where I've seen the exact details in English, but I think it's been an article of faith for 90 years in Dutch politics that the PM and the exact configuration of parties in his coalition do not change without a general election, such was the scale of the opprobrium back when Queen Wilhelmina allowed that to happen.
|
|
mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,443
|
Post by mboy on Mar 18, 2017 16:39:56 GMT
Does this mean that a minor party can force a general election by resigning from the govt?
|
|
mazuz
Conservative
Posts: 155
|
Post by mazuz on Mar 18, 2017 17:55:54 GMT
Does this mean that a minor party can force a general election by resigning from the govt? Yes, which is what happened in 2006 when D66 rescinded its support for the second Balkenende government.
|
|
|
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Mar 18, 2017 20:28:47 GMT
Dutch politics, not so much. I can't see the appeal of a PR system which doesn't mean anything more than a wider spread of parties making the exact same decisions. They really need a 5% threshold. At this point, what would that do? The only 'serious' party it'd remove is the CU, and most of the cranks who vote for the other sub-5% parties would keep doing so anyway. The point of the 5% threshold is to retard the growth of smaller parties to protect the vote shares of the larger parties. That ship has sailed. A 10% threshold might make a difference, but that would be too big a change to the dominant political culture.
|
|