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Post by LDCaerdydd on Jul 6, 2019 16:51:46 GMT
Probably Winston Churchill. No, he wasn't first elected until the 1900 "Kaki" election. It might have been Lloyd George who was elected in 1890 and sat until 1945 Lloyd George sat until 1945 but died shorty after. Are there any other examples of MPs elected in the 1890s who lived into the 1950s or even 1960s? I've found Henry Harrison, MP for Mid Tipperary 1890-1892 who died in 1954.
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Post by tonyhill on Jul 7, 2019 9:36:09 GMT
I am an executor for my father-in-law's estate. We have had a letter from the council asking for information regarding the current status of his property, which is fair enough because he has not been paying council tax since he went into care. However, one of the questions the council has asked is "What is/are the name(s) and address(es) of the beneficiary/beneficiaries of the property?" Does the council have a right to this information, and if so, why?
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 7, 2019 10:37:59 GMT
I am an executor for my father-in-law's estate. We have had a letter from the council asking for information regarding the current status of his property, which is fair enough because he has not been paying council tax since he went into care. However, one of the questions the council has asked is "What is/are the name(s) and address(es) of the beneficiary/beneficiaries of the property?" Does the council have a right to this information, and if so, why? They obviously and correctly need to assess the immediate status for Council Tax purposes now that the previous holder is dead. The beneficiaries of that property are a matter of public record and the Council is entitled to know and needs to know. Be helpful and cooperative. It always pays off. Tell them who the beneficiaries are and provide an opinion on what is likely to be the medium term outcome whether joint ownership, a sole ownership or fairly rapid disposal on the market. And add if it is to be occupied by a beneficiary, restored first, let or used as a second home.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 7, 2019 11:04:15 GMT
A category intersection search in Wikipedia produced this list of the last surviving MPs from the 1895-1900 Parliament:
John Patrick Hayden (N, Roscommon, South) died 3 July 1954 Geoffrey Drage (C, Derby) died 7 March 1955 Herbert Roberts (L, Denbighshire, West) died 19 December 1955 John Ryder (C, Gravesend) died 30 March 1956 Sir John Stirling-Maxwell, Bt. (C, Glasgow, College) died 30 May 1956 Lord Hugh Cecil (C, Greenwich) died 10 December 1956 Sir Charles Trevelyan (L, Elland) died 24 January 1958 George Lambert (L, South Molton) died 17 February 1958
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 7, 2019 11:09:29 GMT
A further search identifies the last surviving MPs elected in 1900 and not listed above:
John Stanhope Arkwright (C, Hereford) died 19 September 1954 John Boland (N, Kerry, South) died 17 March 1958 Frederick Leveson-Gower (LU, Sutherlandshire) died 9 April 1959 George Montagu (C, Huntingdon) died 15 June 1962 Winston Churchill (C, Oldham) died 24 January 1965
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Post by johnloony on Jul 7, 2019 11:42:01 GMT
A category intersection search in Wikipedia produced this list of the last surviving MPs from the 1895-1900 Parliament: How does one do a "category intersection search"? A year or so ago we were talking about Wikipedia's list of living famous people over the age of 100, and it inspired me to want a list of living famous 99-year-olds... but I couldn't work out how to search for it.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 7, 2019 11:45:13 GMT
Like this: en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=incategory%3A+%22UK+MPs+1951–1955%22+incategory%3A%222014+deaths%22&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&advancedSearch-current=%7B%7D&ns0=1I made this list of the last surviving MPs from the each Parliament: 1892: George Lambert (L, South Molton) died 17 February 1958 1895: George Lambert (L, South Molton) died 17 February 1958 1900: Winston Churchill (C, Oldham) died 24 January 1965 1906: Lord Dalmeny (L, Midlothian) died 31st May 1974 1910(J): Bolton Eyres-Monsell (C, Evesham) died 21 March 1969 1910(D): Hugh O'Neill (C, Antrim, Mid) died 28 November 1982* 1918: Seán MacEntee (SF, Monaghan, South) died 9 January 1984† 1922: Viscount Sandon (C, Shrewsbury) died 7 May 1987 1923: Victor Warrender (C, Grantham) died 14 January 1993 1924: Victor Warrender (C, Grantham) died 14 January 1993 1929: Jack Oldfield (Lab, South East Essex) died 11 December 1999 1931: Edgar Granville (L, Eye) died 14 February 1998 1935: Ernest Millington (CW, Chelmsford) died 9 May 2009†† 1945: John Freeman (Lab, Watford) died 20 December 2014 1950: John Freeman (Lab, Watford) died 20 December 2014 1951: Two members living (John Eden and James Ramsden). Last survivor of the 1951 election was John Freeman. * Last survivor of the December 1910 general election was Sir Harry Verney (L, Buckingham) died 23 December 1974. † Last survivor from those who took their seats was Hugh O'Neill (C, Antrim, Mid) died 28 November 1982. †† Last survivor from those elected prior to the extension of the duration of this Parliament was Horace Trevor-Cox (C, Stalybridge and Hyde) died 30 October 2005. The last survivor of the 1935 election was Edgar Granville (L, Eye) died 14 February 1998.
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Post by johnloony on Jul 7, 2019 12:31:46 GMT
That's full of squiggly jargon and gibberish. How does one do a combined search thingy, in general terms?
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 7, 2019 12:43:10 GMT
That's full of squiggly jargon and gibberish. How does one do a combined search thingy, in general terms? Click on the link, then edit the bar at the top to change the categories you want to search. Or just search Wikipedia but add 'incategory: "<category name>"' to your search terms however many times you want to find articles that are in all of them.
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Post by johnloony on Jul 8, 2019 0:28:11 GMT
Austria has replaced Sebastian Kurz (age 32) as Chancellor by Brigitte Bierlein (age 69). He is more than 7 years younger than any other Chancellor of Austria at time of leaving office at time of leaving office for the last time. She is more than 7 years older than any other Chancellor of Austria at time of entering office for the first time. And, of course, she is (a) 37 years older than him (b) more than twice as old as he is.
All of which makes me wonder if there are any more extreme examples, in any country, at any time in history, of (a) an age gap (b) an age ratio between an incoming Prime Minister / President / Monarch being older than his/her predecessor.
I haven't even started looking yet. Presumably there are lots of examples of a larger age gap or ratio in cases where the incoming one is younger than the outgoing one, so that is excluded from the question.
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Post by timrollpickering on Jul 8, 2019 1:10:07 GMT
The age gap is equal to Gladstone and Rosebery. I think that's the biggest UK gap.
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Post by timrollpickering on Jul 8, 2019 1:44:55 GMT
A lot of African independence era leaders have unrecorded dates of birth and some quite elderly ends in office.
A strong bet for the biggest age gap for politicians would be Hastings Kamuzu Banda who was extremely old when he lost power but exactly how old is uncertain. He reportedly accepted research by his biographer that said he born around March/April 1898 (15 February seems to have been the date he settled on) but earlier he had claimed 14 May 1906 and 14 May is still celebrated as Kamuzu Day, a public holiday. His death certificate in 1997 gave his age as 99. Others suggest he was born earlier in 1896.
Banda was President from the declaration of the republic in July 1966, winning a one horse race for a five year term after which he was declared President for Life, until domestic and international pressure in the early 1990s forced a transition to multiparty democracy. In the May 1994 election he was defeated by Bakili Muluzi. Officially this would make Banda 96, but he may have been even 98. Miluzi was born in March 1941 so was 53 - a gap of 43 or even 45 years.
For a monarch, Louis XIV of France was just 4 days short of his 77th birthday when he died in 1715 and was succeeded by his great grandson Louis XV who was just 5, a gap of 71 years and a ratio of over 14.
Mathematically the greatest ratio for France would be Louis X, who died at 26, succeeded by his posthumous son John I five months later, a ratio of ∞.
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Post by johnloony on Jul 8, 2019 2:34:43 GMT
The age gap is equal to Gladstone and Rosebery. I think that's the biggest UK gap. A lot of African independence era leaders have unrecorded dates of birth and some quite elderly ends in office. A strong bet for the biggest age gap for politicians would be Hastings Kamuzu Banda who was extremely old when he lost power but exactly how old is uncertain. He reportedly accepted research by his biographer that said he born around March/April 1898 (15 February seems to have been the date he settled on) but earlier he had claimed 14 May 1906 and 14 May is still celebrated as Kamuzu Day, a public holiday. His death certificate in 1997 gave his age as 99. Others suggest he was born earlier in 1896. Banda was President from the declaration of the republic in July 1966, winning a one horse race for a five year term after which he was declared President for Life, until domestic and international pressure in the early 1990s forced a transition to multiparty democracy. In the May 1994 election he was defeated by Bakili Muluzi. Officially this would make Banda 96, but he may have been even 98. Miluzi was born in March 1941 so was 53 - a gap of 43 or even 45 years. For a monarch, Louis XIV of France was just 4 days short of his 77th birthday when he died in 1715 and was succeeded by his great grandson Louis XV who was just 5, a gap of 71 years and a ratio of over 14. Mathematically the greatest ratio for France would be Louis X, who died at 26, succeeded by his posthumous son John I five months later, a ratio of ∞. Congratulations on completely missing the whole point of the question, outrageously diverting the subject of the discussion towards something which is completely irrelevant, and thus being a booliak.
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Post by johnloony on Jul 8, 2019 2:47:14 GMT
But anyway, I think I have found one sort-of example: Henry V of France (disputed, and not universally recognised as the proper king), was succeeded as King of France on 9th August 1830 (age 9) by Louis Philippe I (age 56), an age gap of just under 47 years, and a ratio of 5.76 times as old: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri,_Count_of_Chambord en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Philippe_I
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Post by johnloony on Jul 8, 2019 2:56:07 GMT
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Post by johnloony on Jul 8, 2019 3:13:42 GMT
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Post by johnloony on Jul 8, 2019 3:37:36 GMT
So far, I have looked through the lists of Kings & Queens of England / GB, Kings of France, Prime Ministers of UK, France, Spain, Italy, Austria, Presidents of Switzerland, USA. There are lots of examples of gaps of more than 20 years, but no more examples yet of more than 37.
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Post by yellowperil on Jul 8, 2019 7:24:31 GMT
The age gap is equal to Gladstone and Rosebery. I think that's the biggest UK gap. A lot of African independence era leaders have unrecorded dates of birth and some quite elderly ends in office. A strong bet for the biggest age gap for politicians would be Hastings Kamuzu Banda who was extremely old when he lost power but exactly how old is uncertain. He reportedly accepted research by his biographer that said he born around March/April 1898 (15 February seems to have been the date he settled on) but earlier he had claimed 14 May 1906 and 14 May is still celebrated as Kamuzu Day, a public holiday. His death certificate in 1997 gave his age as 99. Others suggest he was born earlier in 1896. Banda was President from the declaration of the republic in July 1966, winning a one horse race for a five year term after which he was declared President for Life, until domestic and international pressure in the early 1990s forced a transition to multiparty democracy. In the May 1994 election he was defeated by Bakili Muluzi. Officially this would make Banda 96, but he may have been even 98. Miluzi was born in March 1941 so was 53 - a gap of 43 or even 45 years. For a monarch, Louis XIV of France was just 4 days short of his 77th birthday when he died in 1715 and was succeeded by his great grandson Louis XV who was just 5, a gap of 71 years and a ratio of over 14. Mathematically the greatest ratio for France would be Louis X, who died at 26, succeeded by his posthumous son John I five months later, a ratio of ∞. Congratulations on completely missing the whole point of the question, outrageously diverting the subject of the discussion towards something which is completely irrelevant, and thus being a booliak. Tim is clearly set on travelling in the completely opposite direction from you. I was looking at British PMs leaving office for the last time and still under 50-its quite a short list-, and even Blair doesn't make it- and Goderich and Roseberry stand out Roseberry succeeded by Salisbury is maybe the best example of youth giving way to the old, but not a strong example of your phenomenon, and the best examples are always going to be in monarchies subject to arcane succession rules rather than democracies subject to the equally arcane rules of the ballot box.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2019 7:27:37 GMT
Napoleon II did not reign following his father's first abdication, in 1814, which was on behalf both of himself and his heirs. He was named as successor in the second abdication, in 1815, but by then the parliament which Napoleon I had created had already effectively seized power. The day after the abdication was signed, it appointed a Commission of Government by its own initiative. This entered into negotiation with the victorious allies and, although sentiment in the parliament was not favourable to recalling the Bourbons, it did not proclaim "Napoleon II" either. This situation lasted for about a fortnight, when the allied demands for unconditional dissolution of Napoleonic institutions and restoration of Louis XVIII were finally accepted. In practice, "Napoleon II" was designated as successor by his father, but the latter had by then effectively ceased to rule, and he was never proclaimed.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jul 8, 2019 7:30:26 GMT
Austria has replaced Sebastian Kurz (age 32) as Chancellor by Brigitte Bierlein (age 69). He is more than 7 years younger than any other Chancellor of Austria at time of leaving office at time of leaving office for the last time. She is more than 7 years older than any other Chancellor of Austria at time of entering office for the first time. And, of course, she is (a) 37 years older than him (b) more than twice as old as he is. All of which makes me wonder if there are any more extreme examples, in any country, at any time in history, of (a) an age gap (b) an age ratio between an incoming Prime Minister / President / Monarch being older than his/her predecessor. I haven't even started looking yet. Presumably there are lots of examples of a larger age gap or ratio in cases where the incoming one is younger than the outgoing one, so that is excluded from the question. If I've got the arithmetic right, the Emperor Nero was six months over 30 at his overthrow in 68 A.D. and his replacement, the Emperor Galba was six months over 70, making a difference of 40 years. It didn't go well for either of them.
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