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Post by jollyroger93 on Aug 8, 2016 19:31:56 GMT
I have always wondered this. What do we think would have happened if Britain had defeat the continental army and won the American war of independence? Would be ever have lost America? Would we still have an Empire. Discuss 👍👍
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peterl
Green
Monarchic Technocratic Localist
Posts: 8,044 
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Post by peterl on Aug 8, 2016 19:36:56 GMT
A few choice headlines.
Donald Trump Elected UKIP Leader, Alaska Branch Calls for EGM
Bernie Sanders Challenges Corbyn for Labour Leadership
City Region of North Texas Too Big, Say Campaigners
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Post by Lord Twaddleford on Aug 8, 2016 20:37:26 GMT
If the loyalist forces had won, I'd imagine that it'd be quite possible that the US (or whatever entity would exist in its place) may not have expanded west as much as it had in real life.
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Aug 8, 2016 21:17:56 GMT
No separate Canada.
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Post by BossMan on Aug 9, 2016 1:21:34 GMT
Elections on Thursdays not Tuesdays.
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Aug 9, 2016 1:45:34 GMT
Better spelling.
Proper whiskey.
Massive British Film Industry.
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Post by Lord Twaddleford on Aug 9, 2016 11:48:13 GMT
Not to colour anyone's impressions of the honourable gentlemen, but I must concur with this sentiment and express my belief that the state of American literacy would be of a more favourable flavour, if only they intitiated a comprehensive programme to convert all spellings to their British (correct) forms. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Aug 10, 2016 0:59:53 GMT
I like their use of sidewalk and hood, instead of pavement and (car) bonnet. More English.
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Post by mrhell on Aug 10, 2016 17:13:09 GMT
Now that would have the Crimean War very interesting. The Alaskan front.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Aug 11, 2016 8:00:17 GMT
Alaska still belonged to Russia at the time of the Crimean war
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Aug 11, 2016 9:59:51 GMT
Alaska still belonged to Russia at the time of the Crimean war Correct. But his rather unlikely point could still have been true, but rather further to the east and south than he had suspected! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 12:06:53 GMT
I assume that politically, the USA would look more like Canada does now - parliamentary system of government, more moderate politics, the Queen as Head of State, etc. I think more likely they would eventually have achieved republican self government regardless - either through a later war or through constitutional means, in much the same way (albeit on a different scale) that the Irish Free State converted itself into a republic. |
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Post by mrhell on Aug 11, 2016 13:31:11 GMT
Alaska still belonged to Russia at the time of the Crimean war Yes, I know the Crimean War took place before Seward's Folly. My comment was mainly based on there being a land border. Another point is that there would be no War of 1812 (actually 1812-15) so we'd have been able to concentrate more on Napeleon. That is of course assuming there is a French revolution. |
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Post by Lord Twaddleford on Aug 11, 2016 15:30:47 GMT
That is of course assuming there is a French revolution. Probably would've been? One of the chronic causes for the French revolution was the financial malaise that resulted from the French participation in the American Revolutionary War. I don't know exactly how critical French involvement was to the outcome of the conflict, but had they never participated I'd imagine that the Loyalists would've won, and that France's money woes would've been lessened, thus either preventing or delaying the revolution. |
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Post by Guest on Aug 11, 2016 20:53:01 GMT
A continuing British North America could be structured as a number of separate colonies, much as happened in southern Africa. Indeed, perhaps there would be an equivalent of the Boer Great Trek, in which defeated rebels move into unclaimed land beyond the frontiers to establish a republic. There would probably be movement towards a some sort of confederation of these colonies during the 19th century, much like in Australia/South Africa and leading to Dominion status. Slavery and the other contributary factors to the Civil War would doubtless still be present in this scenario, which might lead eventuslly to more than one Dominion being formed, maybe like Ireland was originally envisaged in 1920. I remember seing a timeline a bit like this called 'The Dominion of Southern America' or something similar. Taken to extremes, one could always have a 'southern' entity follow a Rhodesia-esque path I suppose. There's also other colonial powers to consider. A 'scramble' might develop for North America. No Louisiana Purchase, but the French might still lose it during 1789-1815, 1830 or 1848. An independent Cajun polity might result among other things in migration of Francophones out of British colonies. Then there's the Spanish in Florida and on the West Coast, though in the latter I think the Russians might have gradually expanded into California at their expense during the 19th century. What the high north and Arctic would look like I don't know. |
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middyman
Conservative
"The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of other people's money."
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Post by middyman on Aug 11, 2016 22:07:15 GMT
This would have been unnecessary. It dates from a few months ago:
A MESSAGE FROM THE QUEEN
To the citizens of the United States of America from Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.
In light of your failure to nominate competent candidates for President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately.
Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (except North Dakota, which she does not fancy).
Your new Prime Minister, David Cameron, will appoint a Governor for America without the need for further elections.
Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire may be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed.
To aid in the transition to a British Crown dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:
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1. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'colour,' 'favour,' 'labour' and 'neighbour.' Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters, and the suffix '-ize' will be replaced by the suffix '-ise.' Generally, you will be expected to raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. (look up 'vocabulary').
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2. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as ''like' and 'you know' is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. There is no such thing as U.S. English. We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take into account the reinstated letter 'u'' and the elimination of '-ize.'
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3. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.
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4. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not quite ready to be independent. Guns should only be used for shooting grouse. If you can't sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist, then you're not ready to shoot grouse.
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5. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. Although a permit will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.
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6. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left side with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables. Both roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.
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7. The former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling gasoline) of roughly $10/US gallon. Get used to it.
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8. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips, and those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but with vinegar.
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9. The cold, tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as Lager. South African beer is also acceptable, as they are pound for pound the greatest sporting nation on earth and it can only be due to the beer. They are also part of the British Commonwealth - see what it did for them. American brands will be referred to as Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine, so that all can be sold without risk of further confusion.
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10. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as good guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast English actors to play English characters. Watching Andie Macdowell attempt English dialect in Four Weddings and a Funeral was an experience akin to having one's ears removed with a cheese grater.
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11. You will cease playing American football. There is only one kind of proper football; you call it soccer. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies).
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12. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.1% of you are aware there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. You will learn cricket, and we will let you face the South Africans first to take the sting out of their deliveries.
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13. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us mad.
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14. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1776).
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15. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 p.m. with proper cups, with saucers, and never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes; plus strawberries (with cream) when in season.
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Post by Ghyl Tarvoke on Aug 11, 2016 23:30:31 GMT
Canada largely exists in the form it does because the UK government made the conscious effort not to repeat what they did in the US there after 1783.
Almost impossible to say what would have happened but a simple and obvious prediction is that the political geography of North America would look very different. Extremely different. Like even in this timeline there was a Crimean War it would probably wouldn't mattered because the French would have still held Louisiana (and they weren't going to sell it to the bloody English).
Otoh, another French military defeat in America could have moved the crisis of the French state forward a few years, with unpredictable results.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 23:40:06 GMT
Canada largely exists in the form it does because the UK government made the conscious effort not to repeat what they did in the US there after 1783. Almost impossible to say what would have happened but a simple and obvious prediction is that the political geography of North America would look very different. Extremely different. Like even in this timeline there was a Crimean War it would probably wouldn't mattered because the French would have still held Louisiana (and they weren't going to sell it to the bloody English).It would have been lost to Britain in the Napoleonic Wars (unless you butterfly away the French Revolution et al, but I think that is a stretch). |
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Post by Ghyl Tarvoke on Aug 11, 2016 23:54:52 GMT
Canada largely exists in the form it does because the UK government made the conscious effort not to repeat what they did in the US there after 1783. Almost impossible to say what would have happened but a simple and obvious prediction is that the political geography of North America would look very different. Extremely different. Like even in this timeline there was a Crimean War it would probably wouldn't mattered because the French would have still held Louisiana (and they weren't going to sell it to the bloody English).It would have been lost to Britain in the Napoleonic Wars (unless you butterfly away the French Revolution et al, but I think that is a stretch). How? (Actually in practice it's unlikely that Napoleon would have asked for Louisiana back from Spain in this scenario) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 0:00:55 GMT
It would have been lost to Britain in the Napoleonic Wars (unless you butterfly away the French Revolution et al, but I think that is a stretch). How? France would still have lost the war and had to cede it at the Treaty of Paris. There is no way Britain would have allowed a defeated France to hold on to Louisiana. |
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