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Post by Pete Whitehead on Apr 28, 2017 11:59:59 GMT
So in 20 years from now Andover may be a "dry town" After the experience of being represented by Sir George Young that may come as a relief to many
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Post by Strontium Dog on Apr 28, 2017 14:40:54 GMT
I hope that you continue to argue the case for liberal values from your new colour. Nice ironic use of the word "continue".
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Post by Antiochian on Apr 28, 2017 15:11:06 GMT
I hope that you continue to argue the case for liberal values from your new colour. Nice ironic use of the word "continue". I go to a far, far better place where the word "Liberal" is not a synonym for EU... indeed where the word is multifaceted...
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,301
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Post by Tony Otim on Apr 28, 2017 15:13:01 GMT
If the liberals failed to attract many lib dems during the coalition, it's difficult to see it happening now. Just a slow continued fade into oblivion...
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Apr 28, 2017 16:35:01 GMT
I think that already happened. More than two decades ago. It's now well into the stage of acting as a sort of political sheltered housing for cranks.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Apr 28, 2017 16:45:52 GMT
I have left the LibDems and henceforth am a member of the Liberal Party Well, I'm sorry to lose you but I can see that it was getting increasingly hard to reconcile your views with the party's policy. I hope that you continue to argue the case for liberal values from your new colour. A typically bighearted response. I, on the other hand ... I've pondered moving to the Liberal Party in the past; not sure Antiochan's membership will be an encouragement.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Apr 28, 2017 16:47:58 GMT
I can see an argument for water supply to be owned by local authorities a la Scotland. Most water supplies did used to be local authority undertakings, old maps are scattered with labels such as "Whitby UDC WW". It's a physical localised monopoly from "generation" to consumption. I can't see how a non-monopoly with consumer choice of supplier would work, it would need a seperation of the "generators" - the reservoirs - from the suppliers. I know the government have been moving towards consumer choice of water supply, but how do I in Whitby choose to get that nice water that Northumbria Water supply? Electricity consumer choice is workable at the physics level because each individual supply supplies an amount of energy into the grid which can be bought from the grid. It doesn't need to be the same physical electrons, it just needs the accounting to match up. But there's no such thing as a water gird, and with the chemistry of water it would be difficult to make any such grid. Regardless of how much water Northumbria Water's "generators" feed into the supply there is no way I can arrange for their supply to come out of my tap. Northumbria Water has a water "generation" surplus, so consumer supplier choice seems to suggest that the water deficit in London can be magically fixed by everybody in London switching supplier to Northumbria. My thoughts exactly.. Moreover in many parts of the south of the country where reservoirs are not a source but groundwater is pumped there is a brewing supply crisis. Here is Test Valley, Andover which is at the head of the valley (i.e. there is little upstream) is adding (supposedly) 10,000 new homes and yet our planning committee was recently informed that there is "no extra water" by Southern Water. So in 20 years from now Andover may be a "dry town" and not in a temperance sense of the word. Its a toxic brew (pardon the pun) of poor local planning and a do-nothing water company. Shut the breweries then!
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Apr 28, 2017 18:20:40 GMT
Is a national water grid possible? We've discussed it before but only in vague terms.
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Post by Lord Twaddleford on Apr 28, 2017 19:55:34 GMT
Is a national water grid possible? We've discussed it before but only in vague terms. It'd likely be possible, but probably not very practical, I should imagine.
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mondialito
Labour
Everything is horribly, brutally possible.
Posts: 4,924
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Post by mondialito on Apr 28, 2017 19:58:37 GMT
A step in the right direction... Aren't the "continuing Liberals" mostly a bunch of lefties? Maybe he means the Australian Liberals...
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myth11
Non-Aligned
too busy at work!
Posts: 2,736
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Post by myth11 on Apr 28, 2017 20:02:54 GMT
Is a national water grid possible? We've discussed it before but only in vague terms. It'd likely be possible, but probably not very practical, I should imagine. yes very possible, if look at the canal map most of England is already linked up .
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Post by gwynthegriff on Apr 28, 2017 20:08:04 GMT
It'd likely be possible, but probably not very practical, I should imagine. yes very possible, if look at the canal map most of England is already linked up . I'm no water engineer but ... Wouldn't the problem be that given the volume of water you might need to shift at certain times: Using CANALS would make it impossible to navigate "upstream" * Using RIVERS would cause ecological damage by scouring and bank damage? * Would also need extensive works to locks and spillways I fear.
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myth11
Non-Aligned
too busy at work!
Posts: 2,736
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Post by myth11 on Apr 28, 2017 20:15:56 GMT
yes very possible, if look at the canal map most of England is already linked up . I'm no water engineer but ... Wouldn't the problem be that given the volume of water you might need to shift at certain times: Using CANALS would make it impossible to navigate "upstream" * Using RIVERS would cause ecological damage by scouring and bank damage? * Would also need extensive works to locks and spillways I fear. true but if we keep building housing in the "dry south east" something has to give.
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Apr 28, 2017 20:16:45 GMT
There was a plan in Spain to move water from the Ebro and Rhone to the south but it got shelved in favour of lots of desalination.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Apr 28, 2017 20:52:03 GMT
I'm no water engineer but ... Wouldn't the problem be that given the volume of water you might need to shift at certain times: Using CANALS would make it impossible to navigate "upstream" * Using RIVERS would cause ecological damage by scouring and bank damage? * Would also need extensive works to locks and spillways I fear. true but if we keep building housing in the "dry south east" something has to give. If you can build bloody big pipelines from mid-Wales to Birmingham or the Lake District to Manchester then surely ...
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Post by curiousliberal on Apr 28, 2017 21:21:58 GMT
The continuing SDP and continuing Liberals are remarkably similar in terms of policy (left wing, anti-EU, socially liberal, etc). Perhaps a merger might be in order?
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Post by finsobruce on Apr 28, 2017 21:26:21 GMT
The continuing SDP and continuing Liberals are remarkably similar in terms of policy (left wing, anti-EU, socially liberal, etc). Perhaps a merger might be in order? What could possibly go wrong?
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myth11
Non-Aligned
too busy at work!
Posts: 2,736
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Post by myth11 on Apr 28, 2017 21:30:01 GMT
true but if we keep building housing in the "dry south east" something has to give. If you can build bloody big pipelines from mid-Wales to Birmingham or the Lake District to Manchester then surely ... Also true but pipes have problems too .
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,625
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Post by J.G.Harston on Apr 28, 2017 22:19:35 GMT
Is a national water grid possible? We've discussed it before but only in vague terms. I discussed it with a Yorkshire Water engineer at an open day when they opened a new supply treatment works. All electricity is just electricity, all gas is just methane, but all water isn't just water. Water sourced in different areas is chemically different which causes problems if with transfering it between areas. Plus, it is hugely heavy, and half of the grid would be pumping it uphill. Methane is light and electricity has no such thing as uphill. The existing long-distance grid-type water distribution systems aren't grids, they're long-distance local supplies mostly running downhill (eg Lake District to Manchester) and not mixed with water from other areas. The engineering problems are solvable, but it's the costs that stands in the way. Water is *THE* most expensive utility product to move away from its local area.
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Post by mrpastelito on Apr 28, 2017 22:30:39 GMT
Is a national water grid possible? We've discussed it before but only in vague terms. I discussed it with a Yorkshire Water engineer at an open day when they opened a new supply treatment works. All electricity is just electricity, all gas is just methane, but all water isn't just water. Water sourced in different areas is chemically different which causes problems if with transfering it between areas. Plus, it is hugely heavy, and half of the grid would be pumping it uphill. Methane is light and electricity has no such thing as uphill. The existing long-distance grid-type water distribution systems aren't grids, they're long-distance local supplies mostly running downhill (eg Lake District to Manchester) and not mixed with water from other areas. The engineering problems are solvable, but it's the costs that stands in the way. Water is *THE* most expensive utility product to move away from its local area. In other words, a national water grid remains a pipe dream.
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