carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 11, 2016 21:41:35 GMT
If only doktorb, if only! Waistcoat and stove pipe topper is very me. Birth of railways, king coal, the greatest empire in the history of the world, Queen Empress, Disraeli, Servants, dominant navy, no passport required, gold sovereigns, fog in Channel............Europe 'cut off'! What's not to like. Correct in all particulars dok. And terrible working conditions for women, children, the mentally ill. Gross health provision. Hideous human rights. Horrendous poverty. You're welcome to an invented past and the days of "white power". Not for me. Good! I wouldn't want you there moaning, complaining and being a general drag and equally unsuccessful.
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 11, 2016 21:47:36 GMT
In the early part of the last century, they tended to prefer short names, even if they weren't the largest town, or even central to the area. Thus we got St Ives, and Wells, and Maldon, and Leek, and Brigg, and my all time favourite Eye. For a time I lived in what had been part of Eye and on going to see it marvelled at such a small place giving name to a seat. I liked it. Short and pithy. I like Ely, Grimsby and Yarmouth (cut of the silly 'Greats').
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 11, 2016 21:49:49 GMT
In the early part of the last century, they tended to prefer short names, even if they weren't the largest town, or even central to the area. Thus we got St Ives, and Wells, and Maldon, and Leek, and Brigg, and my all time favourite Eye. North Shropshire should be Wem. Ely for one of the Cambridgeshire seats. No. Oswestry is the historic proper name.
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Post by johnloony on Apr 11, 2016 23:16:41 GMT
And Gaelic is quite possibly the only language in the world whose orthography is an even more distasteful mess than English. If you're referring to the correlation between spelling and pronunciation, Thai is quite bad. The rules of spelling have been overtaken by multiple waves, over hundreds of years, of consonant shifts.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Apr 11, 2016 23:53:21 GMT
No, following the Australian model North Shropshire should obviously be Hazlitt...
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Post by minionofmidas on Apr 12, 2016 18:14:30 GMT
And Gaelic is quite possibly the only language in the world whose orthography is an even more distasteful mess than English. If you're referring to the correlation between spelling and pronunciation, Thai is quite bad. The rules of spelling have been overtaken by multiple waves, over hundreds of years, of consonant shifts. You know, I actually thought about mentioning that in my OP. Burmese has similar issues IIRC. Maybe I shoulda just stuck with "in Europe".
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Post by minionofmidas on Apr 12, 2016 18:17:07 GMT
And Gaelic is quite possibly the only language in the world whose orthography is an even more distasteful mess than English. On what basis are you saying that? I've always found Scots Gaelic to be incredibly regular. I am admittedly more familiar with Irish.
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obsie
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Post by obsie on Apr 13, 2016 2:41:53 GMT
On what basis are you saying that? I've always found Scots Gaelic to be incredibly regular. I am admittedly more familiar with Irish. Irish spelling-to-pronunciation rules are complex but regular with a few common exceptions: ar, ag, is. The first two are spelt phonetically in Scottish Gaelic and is's pronunciation can be affected by the following vowel or broad/narrow consonant. It generally helps to start with the consonants (think of Arabic/Hebrew), work out if they're broad (hard, velarised) or narrow (soft, palatalised) by looking at the following vowel (or the preceding vowel when dealing with final consonants), look to see if you have any long vowels ( á - a: é, ae - both e:, í, ao, aoi - all i: although ao is e: in the south, ó, eo - both o:, ú - u:) or diphthongs ( ia, ua, abha/ amha) and where the stress is (unstressed long vowels are shortened, unstressed short vowels turn into schwas). Stress is almost always on the first syllable in the north, the penultimate or last syllable in the south. It might have been easier for us to go with the Cyrillic alphabet, though...
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piperdave
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Post by piperdave on Apr 13, 2016 21:54:27 GMT
I am admittedly more familiar with Irish. Irish spelling-to-pronunciation rules are complex but regular with a few common exceptions: ar, ag, is. The first two are spelt phonetically in Scottish Gaelic and is's pronunciation can be affected by the following vowel or broad/narrow consonant. It generally helps to start with the consonants (think of Arabic/Hebrew), work out if they're broad (hard, velarised) or narrow (soft, palatalised) by looking at the following vowel (or the preceding vowel when dealing with final consonants), look to see if you have any long vowels ( á - a: é, ae - both e:, í, ao, aoi - all i: although ao is e: in the south, ó, eo - both o:, ú - u:) or diphthongs ( ia, ua, abha/ amha) and where the stress is (unstressed long vowels are shortened, unstressed short vowels turn into schwas). Stress is almost always on the first syllable in the north, the penultimate or last syllable in the south. It might have been easier for us to go with the Cyrillic alphabet, though... Thanks for the info. I have been speaking Gaelic for more than 15 years though!
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Apr 13, 2016 22:10:48 GMT
I'm not a fan of "Cheadle". The seat includes Cheadle, Cheadle Hulme, Heald Green, Gatley and Bramhall- well, and Stepping Hill, but most people consider that to be part of Hazel Grove. It's a bit narrow and it's not even anywhere near being the same seat as it was when it first emerged in 1950.
I'd prefer Cheadle & Gatley, which is the name of the urban district that covered most of the now constituency. It covers a bit more, and it keeps alive a historical name.
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obsie
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Post by obsie on Apr 13, 2016 22:12:18 GMT
Irish spelling-to-pronunciation rules are complex but regular with a few common exceptions: ar, ag, is. The first two are spelt phonetically in Scottish Gaelic and is's pronunciation can be affected by the following vowel or broad/narrow consonant. It generally helps to start with the consonants (think of Arabic/Hebrew), work out if they're broad (hard, velarised) or narrow (soft, palatalised) by looking at the following vowel (or the preceding vowel when dealing with final consonants), look to see if you have any long vowels ( á - a: é, ae - both e:, í, ao, aoi - all i: although ao is e: in the south, ó, eo - both o:, ú - u:) or diphthongs ( ia, ua, abha/ amha) and where the stress is (unstressed long vowels are shortened, unstressed short vowels turn into schwas). Stress is almost always on the first syllable in the north, the penultimate or last syllable in the south. It might have been easier for us to go with the Cyrillic alphabet, though... Thanks for the info. I have been speaking Gaelic for more than 15 years though! Ba ì teachtaireachd Mhinion Mhidas a bha mi a'freagairt Gabh mo leithsgeul le do thoil.
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Post by therealriga on May 10, 2016 16:33:42 GMT
One of my pet peeves is when you have a name suggesting that it contains the whole of an area when it doesn't. How can you have an Ipswich seat, when there exists, simultaneously, Central Suffolk & Ipswich North? The former should be renamed. Ditto Middlesbrough and North Tyneside and previous offenders like Hammersmith & Fulham.
The local settlement versus national recognition is an interesting one. Most people in Stoke-On-Trent, for example, would think of Stoke as being just one of the six towns. If it was down to locals you'd have "Burslem, Tunstall & Kidsgrove", "Hanley & Stoke" and "Fenton & Longton" instead of the north, central and south we have now. The latter are obviously more obscure nationally.
A proscriptive insistence on either compass points or suburbs isn't the best approach. The Irish boundary commission generally favors compass points, which resulted in the utter awfulness of "Dublin Mid West" being created in 2002, when 75% of the population lived in Clondalkin and Lucan.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on May 10, 2016 17:09:39 GMT
One of my pet peeves is when you have a name suggesting that it contains the whole of an area when it doesn't. How can you have an Ipswich seat, when there exists, simultaneously, Central Suffolk & Ipswich North? The former should be renamed Arguably, its the latter that should be......
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on May 10, 2016 17:15:36 GMT
Ipswich should definitely not be renamed, given that it includes everywhere that people think of when they think of Ipswich. 'Ipswich North' is a collection of outlying estates and calling the remainder of the town Ipswich South would be ridiculous.
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Post by No Offence Alan on May 10, 2016 17:32:45 GMT
Since there is a ward in South Lanarkshire called East Kilbride Central South, I suggest re-naming the Holyrood seat of Clydebank and Milngavie as "West Dunbartonshire East and East Dunbartonshire West".
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Post by Pete Whitehead on May 10, 2016 22:31:10 GMT
One of my pet peeves is when you have a name suggesting that it contains the whole of an area when it doesn't. How can you have an Ipswich seat, when there exists, simultaneously, Central Suffolk & Ipswich North? The former should be renamed Arguably, its the latter that should be...... It should be renamed Eye of course
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on May 10, 2016 22:52:52 GMT
I'm not a fan of "Cheadle". The seat includes Cheadle, Cheadle Hulme, Heald Green, Gatley and Bramhall- well, and Stepping Hill, but most people consider that to be part of Hazel Grove. It's a bit narrow and it's not even anywhere near being the same seat as it was when it first emerged in 1950. I'd prefer Cheadle & Gatley, which is the name of the urban district that covered most of the now constituency. It covers a bit more, and it keeps alive a historical name. No you don't. Not really. Cheadle is nice and short. A fair number of people know roughly where it is. No one at all has ever heard of bloody Gatley.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on May 10, 2016 23:12:13 GMT
Cheadle is nice and short. A fair number of people know roughly where it is. Some of them think it's in Staffordshire, which of course it is.
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Post by johnloony on May 10, 2016 23:15:48 GMT
I'm not a fan of "Cheadle". The seat includes Cheadle, Cheadle Hulme, Heald Green, Gatley and Bramhall- well, and Stepping Hill, but most people consider that to be part of Hazel Grove. It's a bit narrow and it's not even anywhere near being the same seat as it was when it first emerged in 1950. I'd prefer Cheadle & Gatley, which is the name of the urban district that covered most of the now constituency. It covers a bit more, and it keeps alive a historical name. No you don't. Not really. Cheadle is nice and short. A fair number of people know roughly where it is. No one at all has ever heard of bloody Gatley. That's a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation. Over the years, I have often found that I have a better idea of where a town or area is, precisely because it is included in a constituency name.
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on May 11, 2016 2:00:33 GMT
I like nice short names, preferably of long historic use, preferably easy for an intelligent interested person to find or know about. A Cheadle does not need a Gatley, nor Tonbridge a Malling, Rochester a Strood. Perhaps Thirsk and Malton.....and Whitby and Scarborough to give an idea of the larger than average geographic spread? The fact that there is another Newport, Newton, Ashford, Cheadle, Richmond is of no matter. The people in it know where they are! Others will soon get used to which is which by long association.
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