jamie
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Post by jamie on Oct 18, 2017 15:03:19 GMT
Adrian The problem for the Commission is that unless they revert back to the initial proposals idea, or remove Prudhoe from Hexham, the best they could do to solve Stakeford would be to shift a few wards around which would result in Berwick having to take in Humshaugh right next to Hexham, which would make the Berwick constituency unacceptable for both geographical and community purposes. Basically, Berwick and Ashington etc, is the best of a bad bunch.
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Adrian
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Post by Adrian on Oct 18, 2017 15:10:15 GMT
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Post by La Fontaine on Oct 18, 2017 17:50:33 GMT
Adrian The problem for the Commission is that unless they revert back to the initial proposals idea, or remove Prudhoe from Hexham, the best they could do to solve Stakeford would be to shift a few wards around which would result in Berwick having to take in Humshaugh right next to Hexham, which would make the Berwick constituency unacceptable for both geographical and community purposes. Basically, Berwick and Ashington etc, is the best of a bad bunch. I wonder whether they decided not to cross the Northumberland boundary before or after they worked out the permutations. Removing Prudhoe does make things much simpler.
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Oct 18, 2017 17:57:52 GMT
I wonder whether they decided not to cross the Northumberland boundary before or after they worked out the permutations. Removing Prudhoe does make things much simpler. It's also good for Blaydon as they can lose Burnopfield orphan ward to a Durham council area seat along with Westerhope to Newcastle North West, the latter means you can easily solve the city centre problem as you're not trying to get 3 constituencies right at the bottom of quota deviation.
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Post by minionofmidas on Oct 18, 2017 19:05:02 GMT
La Fontaine Agree with a lot of that. I personally prefer Prudhoe being part of Blaydon constituency (it should be in Gateshead MBC tbh) with the Tyne crossing being the city centres. However, they seem obsessed with making Blaydon the crossing point, and the new Newcastle North West including the city centre wards just shows how blatantly attached to this idea they are against common sense. Agree that Blaydon is an awful place to cross, 'Blaydon and Newcastle Central' has greater links! I stand by my earlier proposal for a Tyne Tunnel constituency. ;D (Plus Prudhoe with Blaydon and, yes, plus Berwick & Ashington. It's finely balanced but it's the least bad alignment. And the only alignment that isn't a gerrymander.)
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Post by jigger on Oct 18, 2017 20:45:24 GMT
But what is Blaydon part of? Answer carefully. England. Was England the right answer then, jamie? Obviously Blaydon is part of England, but I thought there was some other answer to your question.
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Post by minionofmidas on Oct 18, 2017 20:49:12 GMT
Was England the right answer then, jamie ? Obviously Blaydon is part of England, but I thought there was some other answer to your question. I would assume the answer he sought was "Gateshead", though "Durham" also works in context.
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Oct 18, 2017 21:55:53 GMT
Was England the right answer then, jamie ? Obviously Blaydon is part of England, but I thought there was some other answer to your question. Durham or Northumberland were the contentious answers. The River Derwent in the border in Tynedale while the River Tyne is the same for urban Tyneside. However, the use of the river Derwent is usually abandoned once you reach the Blaydon constituency area (despite it continuing to the Tyne to form a natural boundary) and the Tyne is used instead, despite the western boundary not being river based anymore. This gives rise to the problem of Blaydon along with places like Prudhoe both being south of the Tyne and north of the Derwent, otherwise the accepted boundaries of the counties, being in separate counties instead.
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Oct 18, 2017 22:04:07 GMT
I stand by my earlier proposal for a Tyne Tunnel constituency. ;D (Plus Prudhoe with Blaydon and, yes, plus Berwick & Ashington. It's finely balanced but it's the least bad alignment. And the only alignment that isn't a gerrymander.) The North East is essentially a series of least bad options. Billingham and Newton Aycliffe, Tyne Bridge (alas not this time), Berwick and Ashington, Jarrow and Washington North (I don't think anyone else wants it but it would solve a lot of problems) etc etc. Hopefully a blank slate and 10% quota deviation will mean we can get better boundaries next time.
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Post by John Chanin on Oct 20, 2017 7:21:24 GMT
Like many people I had the Berwick & Ashington option, but it was finely balanced between two not very attractive options. Billingham & Sedgefield is the sensible answer to the problem there. I don't think there's much to choose between the Blaydon and Tyne Bridge options. Either way Gateshead gets split.
I still like my option of linking Washington with Chester-le-Street, which would have avoided the horrible Durham & Easington seat. But by generating this horror, the rest of the map looks OK. This harks back to a general issue we have discussed before - is it better to have one really crap seat, and a lot of reasonable ones, or several a little bit crap seats. I think I'm in a minority in taking the former view.
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Oct 20, 2017 8:23:30 GMT
I don't think there's much to choose between the Blaydon and Tyne Bridge options. Either way Gateshead gets split. I know it might appear that way from afar, but I do think Tyne Bridge is much more preferable. Tyne Bridge would have a large transient population (mainly students) so there's no much community links to break up. Meanwhile, Blaydon and nearby villages are much more rural and connected to places like Prudhoe and Whickham (or even Consett). There really are basically no connections either in community or transport (no offence, but why would you go to the West End?) so it's just a really awkward constituency and I don't see any way that Tyne Bridge is better (despite what the Commission claims despite having not visited Blaydon).
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Post by La Fontaine on Oct 20, 2017 17:29:03 GMT
I go across the river to B&Q in Scotswood more often now the Swalwell one has closed. That's about it. Meanwhile I am just back from the Tyneside Cinema, one of many venues in the central or quayside area which I visit regularly. The preference for Blaydon/Newburn over Tyne Bridge is pretty daft, but won't be changed.
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Adrian
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Post by Adrian on Oct 20, 2017 18:24:21 GMT
Like many people I had the Berwick & Ashington option, but it was finely balanced between two not very attractive options. Billingham & Sedgefield is the sensible answer to the problem there. I don't think there's much to choose between the Blaydon and Tyne Bridge options. Either way Gateshead gets split. I still like my option of linking Washington with Chester-le-Street, which would have avoided the horrible Durham & Easington seat. But by generating this horror, the rest of the map looks OK. This harks back to a general issue we have discussed before - is it better to have one really crap seat, and a lot of reasonable ones, or several a little bit crap seats. I think I'm in a minority in taking the former view. The Commission's plan (and mine) only nips a corner off Gateshead so I think that's excusable. I join you in the minority view. I set out to unsplit all the towns that the Commission originally split, and Durham & Peterlee was the leftovers. And having lived in Durham, I don't see it as that bad a seat. I knew people from the coast who worked in Durham, and I don't think many city people will be bothered by it. But Framwellgate Moor needs to be added to the seat.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 21:30:41 GMT
I go across the river to B&Q in Scotswood more often now the Swalwell one has closed. That's about it. Meanwhile I am just back from the Tyneside Cinema, one of many venues in the central or quayside area which I visit regularly. The preference for Blaydon/Newburn over Tyne Bridge is pretty daft, but won't be changed. Coming from fairly inner city Newcastle (admittedly not the old Tyne Bridge Part) I'd very rarely go South of the river though. There's no link in it from our perspective. For me crossing the Tyne this far east should be a big no no. The natural location is surely around Prudhoe / Blaydon.
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Post by La Fontaine on Oct 20, 2017 22:24:29 GMT
I go across the river to B&Q in Scotswood more often now the Swalwell one has closed. That's about it. Meanwhile I am just back from the Tyneside Cinema, one of many venues in the central or quayside area which I visit regularly. The preference for Blaydon/Newburn over Tyne Bridge is pretty daft, but won't be changed. Coming from fairly inner city Newcastle (admittedly not the old Tyne Bridge Part) I'd very rarely go South of the river though. There's no link in it from our perspective. For me crossing the Tyne this far east should be a big no no. The natural location is surely around Prudhoe / Blaydon. How often did you visit Blaydon?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 22:30:56 GMT
Coming from fairly inner city Newcastle (admittedly not the old Tyne Bridge Part) I'd very rarely go South of the river though. There's no link in it from our perspective. For me crossing the Tyne this far east should be a big no no. The natural location is surely around Prudhoe / Blaydon. How often did you visit Blaydon? Not all that often. Less often than Prudhoe. But surely Western Gateshead peters out into countryside and Prudhoe whereas the Tyne is a fairly hard barrier.
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Post by thirdchill on Oct 21, 2017 0:56:35 GMT
Whilst there are no doubt some alterations that can be made, on the whole this is a big improvement on the rubbish that was produced last time.
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Post by La Fontaine on Oct 21, 2017 6:47:04 GMT
Whilst there are no doubt some alterations that can be made, on the whole this is a big improvement on the rubbish that was produced last time. Indeed, but Blaydon is the sore thumb. It does not include Prudhoe. The Tyne is a clear wide boundary all the way past Prudhoe. And while I accept there are many Newcastle residents who never go to the Baltic, Sage, Hilton Hotel or Arena (shortly to move across the river) there are many who do.
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Post by La Fontaine on Oct 23, 2017 15:21:21 GMT
These are my proposed amendments to the revised proposals.
Berwick and Morpeth: delete Choppington and Stakeford; add Lynemouth. Electorate: 73286. Blyth and Ashington: delete Lynemouth, Seghill with Seaton Delaval and Holywell; add Choppington and Stakeford . Electorate: 73869. Hexham and Cramlington: delete Prudhoe North and Prudhoe South; add Seghill with Seaton Delaval and Holywell. Electorate: 77442. Blaydon: delete Burnopfield & Dipton and Benwell & Scotswood; add Prudhoe North, Prudhoe South and Woolsington. Electorate: 78181. Newcastle North West: delete Woolsington; add Benwell & Scotswood. Electorate: 71530. North West Durham: delete Weardale; add Burnopfield & Dipton. Electorate: 73710. Bishop Auckland: add Weardale. Electorate: 77541. South Shields: add Simonside & Rekendyke. Electorate: 77467. Gateshead West: delete Bridges, Deckham and Saltwell; add High Fell and Windy Nook & Whitehills. Electorate: 71768. Jarrow: delete High Fell, Simonside & Rekendyke and Windy Nook & Whitehills; add Bridges, Deckham and Saltwell. Electorate: 72643.
I have kept the proposed names, though some should be changed.
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Adrian
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Post by Adrian on Oct 23, 2017 16:32:53 GMT
These are my proposed amendments to the revised proposals. Berwick and Morpeth: delete Choppington and Stakeford; add Lynemouth. Electorate: 73286. Blyth and Ashington: delete Lynemouth, Seghill with Seaton Delaval and Holywell; add Choppington and Stakeford . Electorate: 73869. Hexham and Cramlington: delete Prudhoe North and Prudhoe South; add Seghill with Seaton Delaval and Holywell. Electorate: 77442. Blaydon: delete Burnopfield & Dipton and Benwell & Scotswood; add Prudhoe North, Prudhoe South and Woolsington. Electorate: 78181. Newcastle North West: delete Woolsington; add Benwell & Scotswood. Electorate: 71530. North West Durham: delete Weardale; add Burnopfield & Dipton. Electorate: 73710. Bishop Auckland: add Weardale. Electorate: 77541. ... Woolsington's not ideal, but it's probably the best that can be done without a reconfiguration of the Hexham/Blaydon/Newcastle/Cramlington area. I think that if you're going to go to the (worthwhile) effort of getting Burnopfield back into N Durham, then I think those voters (+Leadgate) should be used to get Framwellgate Moor back into Durham city.
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