|
Post by tonyhill on Apr 15, 2020 18:25:37 GMT
Just to show that I can be as nit-picking as johnloony can I point out that Simon Hannah's book on the Fight to Stop the Poll Tax, published this year, is called "Can't Pay, Won't Pay". In addition, Russell Deacon's book "Devolution in the United Kingdom" talking about Scotland on p.65 says "This became clear when opposition parties and pressure groups organised a 'Can't Pay, Won't Pay' campaign..."
Somewhere I've still got my summons for refusing to pay the poll tax!
|
|
Foggy
Non-Aligned
Long may it rain
Posts: 5,507
|
Post by Foggy on Apr 15, 2020 20:47:11 GMT
East Lothian: it says that Kenny MacAskill (SNP) "led the 'Can't Pay, Won't Pay' campaign to oppose the poll tax during the 1980s". It was of course a "Can Pay, Won't Pay" campaign. Was it not a campaign to oppose the Community Charge, rather than a non-existent tax?
|
|
|
Post by johnloony on Apr 16, 2020 23:44:12 GMT
Just to show that I can be as nit-picking as johnloony can I point out that Simon Hannah's book on the Fight to Stop the Poll Tax, published this year, is called "Can't Pay, Won't Pay". In addition, Russell Deacon's book "Devolution in the United Kingdom" talking about Scotland on p.65 says "This became clear when opposition parties and pressure groups organised a 'Can't Pay, Won't Pay' campaign..." Somewhere I've still got my summons for refusing to pay the poll tax! I also distinctly remember that lots of people, including lots of journalists, referred to it as a "Can't Pay, Won't Pay" campaign, even AT THE TIME it was happening, DESPITE the fact that the campaign was actually a "Can Pay, Won't Pay" campaign. The reason they did so is because they were not paying attention, and/or they completely missed the point of the SNP's campaign, and/or they deliberately misrepresented it. But the point is that anybody who did so, did so INCORRECTLY.
|
|
|
Post by johnloony on Apr 16, 2020 23:46:26 GMT
East Lothian: it says that Kenny MacAskill (SNP) "led the 'Can't Pay, Won't Pay' campaign to oppose the poll tax during the 1980s". It was of course a "Can Pay, Won't Pay" campaign. Was it not a campaign to oppose the Community Charge, rather than a non-existent tax? The Community Charge *was* a poll tax. The term "poll tax" is a generic term which refers to a type of taxation, of which the Community Charge was a stereotypical example. It was always planned as a poll tax, and was referred to as such through all of the early planning and consultation stages. It was only relatively late in the process that they changed the name and started calling it a "community charge".
|
|
|
Post by tonyhill on Apr 17, 2020 17:55:13 GMT
Just so that we don't continue trying people's patience about this John, why are you so certain you are CORRECT in your assertions? If you were a member of the SNP campaign committee at the time, or have some sort of equivalent status in the matter then I'll leave it. Otherwise, I might just email Kenny MacAskill and see what he says.
|
|
spqr
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,778
|
Post by spqr on Apr 17, 2020 18:17:10 GMT
Just so that we don't continue trying people's patience about this John, why are you so certain you are CORRECT in your assertions? If you were a member of the SNP campaign committee at the time, or have some sort of equivalent status in the matter then I'll leave it. Otherwise, I might just email Kenny MacAskill and see what he says. johnloony believes he is correct because he is johnloony. You're right to point out that 'Can't Pay, Won't Pay' was an alternative slogan, but it was the Anti-Poll Tax Unions in Scotland that mostly seem to have used it; the SNP's campaign - which employed MacAskill as its "official spokesman" - used 'Can Pay, Won't Pay' instead, presumably as a way of differentiating themselves from everyone else. This, of course, left scope for confusion, and sometimes the SNP alluded to both slogans in its literature, as demonstrated by this leaflet (which features the 'Can Pay...' slogan in the penultimate paragraph but is headlined with the phrase "Some People Can't Pay"). A good, if brief, description of the different poll tax campaigns can be found in David McCrone, 'Excessive and Unreasonable: The Politics of the Poll Tax in Scotland', International Journal of Urban and Regional Research, 15:3 (September 1991), pp. 443-52. ( Link)
|
|
|
Post by tonyhill on Apr 17, 2020 21:18:10 GMT
Thanks for that spqr - on the basis of that erudite contribution I will concede johnloony's point that there is a mistake in "The Times Guide to the House of Commons 2019" in respect of Kenny MacAskill's biography.
|
|
|
Post by andrewp on Apr 17, 2020 21:23:44 GMT
I think the Times guide has Jim Shannon MP DOB incorrect. It has 21/04/64 and it should be 1955
|
|
Foggy
Non-Aligned
Long may it rain
Posts: 5,507
|
Post by Foggy on Apr 18, 2020 20:04:17 GMT
Was it not a campaign to oppose the Community Charge, rather than a non-existent tax? The Community Charge *was* a poll tax. The term "poll tax" is a generic term which refers to a type of taxation, of which the Community Charge was a stereotypical example. It was always planned as a poll tax, and was referred to as such through all of the early planning and consultation stages. It was only relatively late in the process that they changed the name and started calling it a "community charge". Yes, you're right, it meets the definition of a poll tax. It is unfortunate that it has come to be known as the Poll Tax (complete with upper case initial letters). I was not familiar with the sequence of events in terms of the name it was formally given, so thanks for that.
|
|
|
Post by johnloony on Jul 29, 2020 23:32:18 GMT
I have just noticed that the TGTTHOC of 1992 gives the date of birth of the Labour candidate Mary Walker (Croydon North East) as 1st July 1947. Actually she was born in 1940.
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 1, 2020 19:41:53 GMT
Not sure that guide has ever had declined to disclose before. It hasn't drawn attention to them. For the record the five are: Felicity Christiana BUCHAN (Kensington) B. 1970, Fraserburgh, Aberdeenshire Kate Elizabeth GRIFFITHS (Burton), maiden surname KNIVETON, B. Q1 1971, Burton, Staffordshire Neil Peter Hammerton HUDSON (Penrith and The Border), B. Q1 1969, Islington Holly MUMBY-CROFT (Scunthorpe), B. July 1983 Katharine Helen BROOKS-OSBORNE (Jarrow), maiden surname OSBORNE, B. Q3 1966, Folkestone, Kent Finally got to check Dod's Parliamentary Companion today, only to find that none of these five have supplied dates of birth to it. Neither have Baronesses Penn and Sanderson of Welton, whose full dates of birth are not publicly available elsewhere. Unless someone's got access to Debretts online.
|
|
|
Post by Wisconsin on Oct 1, 2020 19:50:58 GMT
Does it say Felicity Buchan’s middle name is Christian?
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 1, 2020 19:59:31 GMT
Should be Christiana.
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 1, 2020 20:05:00 GMT
More on topic, there was a second correction note in The Times Corrections and Clarifications column on 14 September.
"The entry in The Times Guide to the House of Commons 2019 for Gareth Davies, MP for Grantham and Stamford, inadvertently incorporated some biographical details for a senior civil servant of the same name who has held posts in the Department for Transport, the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, and in Downing Street. The entry should have said that Gareth Davies MP has served on the Conservative Party’s national economic policy task force and on a government task force for HM Treasury and the Cabinet Office. In 2014 he helped to establish a £100 million fund that invests in UK infrastructure, universities, charities and housing authorities. We apologise to both men for the confusion."
I was unable to post it at the time as I was indisposed due to recent events, which are working their way towards a resolution.
|
|
|
Post by LDCaerdydd on Jan 22, 2022 11:58:36 GMT
If anyone needs it there's a second hand copy of the 2015 edition for £5.49 here.
|
|