piperdave
SNP
Dalkeith; Midlothian/North & Musselburgh
Posts: 909
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Post by piperdave on Oct 12, 2015 23:49:28 GMT
There was a report commissioned by COSLA a year or two ago which suggested that Scotland should have substantially more local authorities, probably around the one hundred mark. Just for a bit of fun, I've been having a go at that and produced what will probably look fairly obvious to most folk. As far as Ayrshire goes, I would have the following:
Carrick District Council Cumnock District Council Kyle District Council Ayr Burgh Council Loudoun District Council Kilmarnock Burgh Council Irvine Burgh Council Irvine Bay District Council North Cunninghame District Council
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,591
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Post by J.G.Harston on Oct 13, 2015 6:54:20 GMT
Also, please explain the purpose of "local government" with the establishment of mega-councils like Strathclyde, ... Good point. Any local government structure has to start from the point of asking "what functions do we want local government to do?"
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cibwr
Plaid Cymru
Posts: 3,558
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Post by cibwr on Oct 13, 2015 8:47:21 GMT
That sounds very like the 1974 reforms, with slightly larger county level authorities. Except that it would take in joint boards and nominated bodies that were removed from the control of local authorities over the last 50 or so years.... plus unify health and social services.
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,261
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Post by Tony Otim on Oct 13, 2015 13:08:01 GMT
This reminded me that I'd scribbled a few ideas on these lines for redrawn urban unitary authorites. I needed to rummage around to find where I'd put the maps. Edinburgh - add Dalkeith and Mussleburgh Edinburgh was expanded in the west to include South Queensferry and Kirkliston. There is certainly a case for expanding to the east to bring in Mussleburgh, Tranent and some of the commuter towns. Dalkeith, Penicuik, Straiton etc could be included to the south. I suspect that there was political motivation in keeping the old eastern and southern boundaries in the 1975 reorganisation. Edinburgh was then seen as a Conservative leaning district. The addition of bits of West Lothian (South Queensferry, Kirkliston) and Midlothian (Cramond, Currie, Balerno) looked likely to favour the Conservatives. The addition of Messelburgh, Dalkeith, etc would not have done so. If you go down that road, then there's really no way Midlothian can continue to exist as a separate entity. East Lothian could still function without Musselburgh. I'd give Kirkliston and Newbridge back to West Lothian if it was me, but that's partly the nightmare of having to get there having been in a city wide team for the last 11 months. I'd abolish Blackpool council. Wouldn't replace it. Maybe just give it to Ireland. Having had the misfortune to deal with them on a professional basis I see no possible excuse for their ongoing existence.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 14,525
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Post by john07 on Oct 13, 2015 13:39:04 GMT
Regarding Midlothian, after taking away Penicuik etc, the rest could be merged with Borders or East Lothian.
Regarding Newbridge, I think that Edinburgh City would miss the loss of business rates income from the Airport and the Ratho Station and Newbridge Industrial Estates, not to mention Heriot-Watt University and the Royal Showground.
Newbridge was originally schedule for a tram line extension . It would be relatively straightforward apart from crossing the M8/M9 but would never happen if it was hived off to West Lothian.
If Cities are to be fiscally self-sufficient, as seems to be coming, the borders must not be drawn so as to exclude the commuter towns.
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,261
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Post by Tony Otim on Oct 13, 2015 14:28:13 GMT
Regarding Midlothian, after taking away Penicuik etc, the rest could be merged with Borders or East Lothian. Regarding Newbridge, I think that Edinburgh City would miss the loss of business rates income from the Airport and the Ratho Station and Newbridge Industrial Estates, not to mention Heriot-Watt University and the Royal Showground. Newbridge was originally schedule for a tram line extension . It would be relatively straightforward apart from crossing the M8/M9 but would never happen if it was hived off to West Lothian. If Cities are to be fiscally self-sufficient, as seems to be coming, the borders must not be drawn so as to exclude the commuter towns. Oh, I'd definitely keep the airport, ingliston and ratho station. Heriot-Watt isn't even really that close. I guess Newbridge could be kept. It's Kirkliston I really want to dump.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 14,525
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Post by john07 on Oct 13, 2015 14:53:24 GMT
Regarding Midlothian, after taking away Penicuik etc, the rest could be merged with Borders or East Lothian. Regarding Newbridge, I think that Edinburgh City would miss the loss of business rates income from the Airport and the Ratho Station and Newbridge Industrial Estates, not to mention Heriot-Watt University and the Royal Showground. Newbridge was originally schedule for a tram line extension . It would be relatively straightforward apart from crossing the M8/M9 but would never happen if it was hived off to West Lothian. If Cities are to be fiscally self-sufficient, as seems to be coming, the borders must not be drawn so as to exclude the commuter towns. Oh, I'd definitely keep the airport, ingliston and ratho station. Heriot-Watt isn't even really that close. I guess Newbridge could be kept. It's Kirkliston I really want to dump. You would have to be very creative with your map drawing to retain the Airport and Newbridge while dumping Kirkliston! Unless you want to go with an Kirkliston enclave?
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,261
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Post by Tony Otim on Oct 13, 2015 15:05:51 GMT
Oh, I'd definitely keep the airport, ingliston and ratho station. Heriot-Watt isn't even really that close. I guess Newbridge could be kept. It's Kirkliston I really want to dump. You would have to be very creative with your map drawing to retain the Airport and Newbridge while dumping Kirkliston! Unless you want to go with an Kirkliston enclave? Well you certainly wouldn't need an enclave - just push the boundary between Kirkliston and Winchburgh to the other side of Kirkliston and tidy things up a bit to the North and South. Shouldn't be too much trouble
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Post by lennon on Oct 13, 2015 15:54:36 GMT
Oh, I'd definitely keep the airport, ingliston and ratho station. Heriot-Watt isn't even really that close. I guess Newbridge could be kept. It's Kirkliston I really want to dump. You would have to be very creative with your map drawing to retain the Airport and Newbridge while dumping Kirkliston! Unless you want to go with an Kirkliston enclave? Quickly looking at a map... Surely everybody would agree that the River Almond is a large and natural boundary being crossed just 5 times between the Firth and the M8. (A90, M9, A89 plus 2 Railway lines) Edit: Obviously you also lose Queensferry this way - is that a positive or not...
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 14,525
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Post by john07 on Oct 13, 2015 16:12:14 GMT
You would have to be very creative with your map drawing to retain the Airport and Newbridge while dumping Kirkliston! Unless you want to go with an Kirkliston enclave? Quickly looking at a map... Surely everybody would agree that the River Almond is a large and natural boundary being crossed just 5 times between the Firth and the M8. (A90, M9, A89 plus 2 Railway lines) Edit: Obviously you also lose Queensferry this way - is that a positive or not... The River Almond is not an obvious boundary unless you want to put in half of Livingston into Edinburgh. The object of bringing icommuter towns into the City from the east and south would hardly be helped by slicing off one of the largest ones in South Queensferry. Politically it would not be missed as it has long been an SNP stronghold.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Oct 13, 2015 17:04:54 GMT
WRT to Aberdeen, there is no reason why Westhill and Portlethen and their associated industrial estates and business parks are outwith the city. Surely those industrial estates and business parks are precisely the reason. South Cambridgeshire DC have been very reluctant in recent years to neaten up the boundary with the city on its north-eastern edge and I'm fairly sure it's because they're worried that if they try to get rid of Orchard Park, the Meadows and Chesterton Fen then they'll lose the Science Park into the bargain.
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Post by afleitch on Oct 13, 2015 17:18:04 GMT
For Scotland have the old District Councils reconstituted, except add Bearsden and Milngavie and Eastwood to Glasgow.
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piperdave
SNP
Dalkeith; Midlothian/North & Musselburgh
Posts: 909
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Post by piperdave on Oct 13, 2015 17:40:09 GMT
There was a report commissioned by COSLA a year or two ago which suggested that Scotland should have substantially more local authorities, probably around the one hundred mark. Just for a bit of fun, I've been having a go at that and produced what will probably look fairly obvious to most folk. As far as Ayrshire goes, I would have the following: Carrick District Council Cumnock District Council Kyle District Council Ayr Burgh Council Loudoun District Council Kilmarnock Burgh Council Irvine Burgh Council Irvine Bay District Council North Cunninghame District Council Interesting...! I would mostly agree with your suggestions although what would "Ayr Burgh Council" look like? It does what it says on the tin. It is the burgh of Ayr, no more no less. I've been developing the proposals using the civil parishes and the current wards so broadly Ayr East, North and West wards. Interested parties may make representations to tweak the boundaries to the Local Government Boundary Commission during the necessary review period. And for those who are wondering, Irvine Bay is Ardrossan, Saltcoats, Stevenston and Kilwinning. Couldn't find a better name so suggestions are welcome.
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piperdave
SNP
Dalkeith; Midlothian/North & Musselburgh
Posts: 909
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Post by piperdave on Oct 13, 2015 19:50:23 GMT
I note your suggestions but they shall not be adopted in my scheme. I want all councils to be a viable unit and have been working to an aim of around 50,000 population per council. Not breaking up the cities or large burghs (like Paisley or East Kilbride) means that councils in rural areas can be a bit smaller so that they are geographically more manageable. For example, the Carrick and Cumnock districts are a fair bit below 50,000 but that's fine. But a Kyle district without Prestwick and Troon would leave it incredibly small and with no obvious community focus. The same would go for 'Muirshiel'. I did look at the Kilbrinie/Beith area with Kilwinning but wasn't convinced on the viability again.
While I was originally going to respect the pre-1974 county boundaries, including not combining two or more counties into one district, I think I'll revise that approach. In Ayrshire, I would want to move Skelmorlie into Inverclyde given the proximity to Wemyss Bay. Far more useful to look at where people actually relate to now than where they did 100 years ago.
I realise now I had forgotten to say that Arran and the Cumbraes were going back into a Buteshire County Council. The County is purely an honorific, it would have the same powers as a district.
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Post by afleitch on Oct 13, 2015 21:31:03 GMT
This is my scheme. It borrows heavily from the old district councils with some revisions due to changes in population. Rural areas tend to be smaller but lines of communication/travel to work areas etc are important. Councils are split into Metropolitan/Burgh/District councils. Skye becomes and Island Council Metropolitan Greater Glasgow Edinburgh Aberdeen Dundee Burgh Cumbernauld Monklands Motherwell Hamilton East Kilbride Ayr Livingston Dunfermline Kirkcaldy Glenrothes District Inverclyde North Ayrshire Kilmarnock South Ayrshire Clydesdale Dumbarton Argyll and Bute Galloway Dumfries Tweeddale Roxburgh Berwick and East Lothian Midlothian Linlithgow Falkirk Stirling Clackmannan North East Fife West Perthshire Perth Angus Kincardine and Deeside Gordon Banff and Buchan Moray Nairn Inverness Badenoch and Strathspey Lochaber Ross and Cromarty Sutherland Caithness
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Post by froome on Oct 13, 2015 21:38:52 GMT
I tend to think Ullapool and the Achiltibuie area should be linked with Sutherland. The rest of Wester Ross then does link more sensibly into Dingwall and Beauly, as it historically did.
Perhaps Carlton can offer a local view.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 13, 2015 22:24:53 GMT
I'd like some councils to change their names to less bloodless nomenclatures.
For example, I'd like Kirklees to be Huddersfield. Trafford to be something like Mersey & Irwell or Altrincham after the main settlement. And definitely a better choice for Cheshire East (Macclesfield & Congleton anyone?)
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 13, 2015 22:25:18 GMT
Also, how about merging Fareham and Gosport?
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Oct 14, 2015 0:32:39 GMT
I'd like to see Solent City raised again as a prospect, if only because I enjoy horrified reactions.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 14, 2015 7:07:49 GMT
I'd like to see Solent City raised again as a prospect, if only because I enjoy horrified reactions. And the further horror when you tell Pompey and Soton that Fareham will be the HQ.
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