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Post by middleenglander on Jul 6, 2014 9:39:20 GMT
you think people knew who the actual PPC was ? It is disgusting that within 4 hours of Bob's death they had to discuss how to elect his replacement. There is no chance of anyone else but Labour winning this BTW but even if an MP dies there is a choice on how quick or not a by election is called. I am sorry but it is the same for any elected official. A sudden death even more so.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 9:51:49 GMT
normally there is more respect than within 4 hours and the prospective UKIP candidate on the same day calling for the date to be announced.
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on Jul 6, 2014 10:30:16 GMT
normally there is more respect than within 4 hours and the prospective UKIP candidate on the same day calling for the date to be announced. Don't be so naive. We all know that the moment an MP's death is reported that political parties begin planning for the by election. The only difference here was that there was public discussion because this is the first time it is happened with a PCC and people weren't sure of the process.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 10:34:36 GMT
you think people knew who the actual PPC was ? It is disgusting that within 4 hours of Bob's death they had to discuss how to elect his replacement. There is no chance of anyone else but Labour winning this BTW but even if an MP dies there is a choice on how quick or not a by election is called. Sadly, as I recall hearing at the time and since, whilst Margaret Beckett was giving a heartfelt tribute to the recently deceased John Smith in the Commons, members of the Labour Party 'behind the scenes' were sounding out the support for Mssrs Blair and Brown. Tasteful? No. Tactful? No. The way politics tends to naturally behave? Yes. Somewhere in your hyperactive responses to this thread are valid points to discuss about the role of PCC, the administrative backbone of the legislation and such like, it's just unfortunate that you've gone off with all guns blazing. Maybe people didn't know who Bob Jones was, but that issue is not directly linked to the badly drafted rules surrounding his replacement (indeed if you like, we can discuss whether this is a 'by-election' or not, that term not actually mentioned in the legislation.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 14:45:34 GMT
you know my view on PCC's Dok and the day we win in May 2015 they are finished.
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Crimson King
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Post by Crimson King on Jul 7, 2014 19:06:27 GMT
you know my view on PCC's Dok and the day we win in May 2015 they are finished. This may be a hostage to fortune, but I bet IF labour win in 2015 abolition of PCCs won't be the first thing on the agenda. How do you think existing Labour PCCs will feel about it?
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jul 7, 2014 19:56:57 GMT
Especially if they've been given the nomination as compensation for not becoming an MP.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 20:04:34 GMT
you know my view on PCC's Dok and the day we win in May 2015 they are finished. This may be a hostage to fortune, but I bet IF labour win in 2015 abolition of PCCs won't be the first thing on the agenda. How do you think existing Labour PCCs will feel about it? Bob said he was looking forward to the day the job became redundant. PCC's abolishment will be part of our manifesto they are dead on Polling day IF we win.
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J.G.Harston
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Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jul 7, 2014 20:43:23 GMT
This may be a hostage to fortune, but I bet IF labour win in 2015 abolition of PCCs won't be the first thing on the agenda. How do you think existing Labour PCCs will feel about it? Bob said he was looking forward to the day the job became redundant. PCC's abolishment will be part of our manifesto they are dead on Polling day IF we win. They were elected for a 4-year term in 2012, so just eliminate them when their term runs out in 2016. It's an elected post so they have already had in effect three and half years' notice that they may not continue to have the job. Edit: a thought. The PCCs were elected in November 2012. Was a November election just a one-off or does their term end in November 2016?
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Post by greatkingrat on Jul 7, 2014 20:51:53 GMT
The next elections will be in May 2016.
Incidentally, if they do go ahead there will be some problems with differential turnout in areas where some councils vote by thirds and others don't. Humberside is an obvious example as Hull will be voting, but the East Riding won't, giving an advantage to Labour.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 21:39:01 GMT
With what will Labour replace PCCs?
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jul 7, 2014 22:10:50 GMT
They've no idea.
I favour US style commissioners but we'll never get them here.
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Post by finsobruce on Jul 7, 2014 23:02:54 GMT
With what will Labour replace PCCs?
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on Jul 7, 2014 23:24:12 GMT
With what will Labour replace PCCs? Please refrain from asking sensible questions, I have already made common cause with Merseymike today so I really don't want to add you to the list. I am deeply sceptical about PCCs but unlike some I recognise that the previous system was no better. The police have been politicised by stealth over a period of at least 25 years so I can see the case for genuinely democratic accountability.
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Crimson King
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Post by Crimson King on Jul 8, 2014 6:50:58 GMT
In my great scheme policing would be a function of the Yorkshire regional assembly
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jul 8, 2014 6:58:49 GMT
I want more elected people. School boards next, undoing Robert Morant's great injustice.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 8:26:34 GMT
@ianrobo, with what would you replace PCCs?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 14:38:40 GMT
the previous system, maybe beefed up but the reality was there was no great cry for it to be replaced.
12% turnout tells it's own sorry story, you can not hope for an idea to work of the vast majority do not care.
Overall though in a wider sense I agree with CK. Bring back the WMCC, place police, roads etc into and then you vote councillors in. Good enough for London, why not the rest of us ?
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Jul 8, 2014 16:21:01 GMT
With what will Labour replace PCCs? Presumably with the system that they replaced or some variation on along that general theme. Alternatively you could return to the old system of direct local authority supervision (via Watch Committees), though the only advantage that would have over the current absurdity is the lack of elections with a 12% turnout.
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Post by iainbhx on Jul 15, 2014 4:48:21 GMT
I am informed that Cllr Mosquito has not been selected as Labour's PCC candidate.
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