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Post by spinach on Sept 23, 2023 7:15:41 GMT
I'm quite surprised by the high % of England born residents in large parts of Highlands. The rural parts of Wester Ross, Lochaber and Skye often have 20-35% of its population born in England, while the numbers are lower in towns such as Fort William, Portree and Kyle of Lochalsh. ukdataexplorer.com/scotland-census-map/ When we moved to Torridon in the 90s, as a family of 4, we topped the scale for the township to exactly 50% off-comers for the first time. It is now near to 80% (mainly English) partly because all but one of the local redidents on our arrival are dead and the few children have nearly all left the area. My 3rd great grandfather was a McLeod from the remote and windswept northwest corner of Skye. He and generations of his family worked as crofters or fishermen. Despite the beautiful surroundings, I’m sure life was tough. However 38% of residents now living in this area were born in England. Many of the old crofts have been converted and there’s numerous holiday lets across the area. There may be a romanticised view of Highland life and a perception that rural parts are full of traditional Highland Scots whose families have lived in the areas for generations. Nonetheless, even the remotest parts of the Highlands are not untouched by the modern world. |
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Post by spinach on Sept 23, 2023 7:38:38 GMT
I presume the English residents are more Tory leaning than the Scottish locals and mostly voted No? Notably the English retirees. Although I can imagine it’s harder to determine the politics of English bohemians, outdoorsy nature types or social recluses wishing to “getting away from it all” who are drawn to such places.
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weld
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Post by weld on Sept 23, 2023 7:44:22 GMT
I presume the English residents are more Tory leaning than the Scottish locals and mostly voted No? Notably the English retirees. Although I can imagine it’s harder to determine the politics of English bohemians, outdoorsy nature types or social recluses wishing to “getting away from it all” who are drawn to such places. I think this trend also explains why the Tories can win in seats like Ayr and Aberdeenshire West at the Holyrood level. I'd argue the English-born vote was decisive in the Tories holding West Aberdeenshire & Kincardine in 2019. It will also help them in the new Gordon & Deeside constituency, I'd wager. |
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Post by spinach on Sept 23, 2023 7:46:06 GMT
When we moved to Torridon in the 90s, as a family of 4, we topped the scale for the township to exactly 50% off-comers for the first time. It is now near to 80% (mainly English) partly because all but one of the local redidents on our arrival are dead and the few children have nearly all left the area. Exactly the same pattern in my native corner of West Sutherland. From your experience, where are the English residents of the Highlands mainly from in England? I presume there’s many from London and the Home Counties, but I could be wrong. Also are there many Scottish residents from the central belt moving to these remote highland communities? |
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weld
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Post by weld on Sept 23, 2023 7:47:07 GMT
Exactly the same pattern in my native corner of West Sutherland. From your experience, where are the English residents of the Highlands mainly from in England? I presume there’s many from London and the Home Counties, but I could be wrong. Also are there many Scottish residents from the central belt moving to these remote highland communities? Can they afford the house prices? Might we even go so far as to say the Highlands are trending Tory in parts? The 2017 Inverness result was incredible, for example. |
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Post by bjornhattan on Sept 23, 2023 8:49:01 GMT
I presume the English residents are more Tory leaning than the Scottish locals and mostly voted No? Notably the English retirees. Although I can imagine it’s harder to determine the politics of English bohemians, outdoorsy nature types or social recluses wishing to “getting away from it all” who are drawn to such places. I think this trend also explains why the Tories can win in seats like Ayr and Aberdeenshire West at the Holyrood level. I'd argue the English-born vote was decisive in the Tories holding West Aberdeenshire & Kincardine in 2019. It will also help them in the new Gordon & Deeside constituency, I'd wager. There aren't very many English born residents in Ayr. Even Ayr West, which is one of the strongest Conservative wards in Scotland, is only around 10% English (with lower figures still in other Conservative coastal towns like Troon and Largs). There will be retirees moving here, but the majority will come from elsewhere in Scotland: probably Glasgow in particular, as many there have fond memories of going "doon the watter" to the Ayrshire coast and may seek to move there in retirement. In adddition, the South of Scotland has a rather different mix of English residents to the Highlands - I regularly visit Dumfries (having family and friends there) and it is noticeable that quite a lot of working age people are English even in the town. But they probably don't favour the Conservatives in the same way, not just because of their age but also because they're often more local migrants who have moved from Cumbria or the North East. You do get more of a Highland pattern in areas like rural Galloway, but the proximity of the border means these southern seats will always have a more heterogeneous mix of English arrivals. |
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nyx
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Post by nyx on Sept 23, 2023 8:52:07 GMT
That's certainly counterintuitive. I wonder if there's any reason for it, like people coming from England for jobs? It is not counterintuitive and of course 'there is a reason for it'!! Do you think before you publish? No one goes to Wester Ross FOR a job! I will admit my thoughts were based on my knowledge of another isolated place which I have more knowledge about– the Falklands, where a large number of English people do end up so that they can fill jobs which locals do not have skills for. I'm not especially familiar with the present day nature of the economy of the rural Highlands. |
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Post by bjornhattan on Sept 23, 2023 8:54:11 GMT
I presume the English residents are more Tory leaning than the Scottish locals and mostly voted No? Notably the English retirees. Although I can imagine it’s harder to determine the politics of English bohemians, outdoorsy nature types or social recluses wishing to “getting away from it all” who are drawn to such places. There may also be another factor at play where these demographic changes could indirectly hurt the Lib Dems (and Labour) - might this influx of English people push some of the Scottish locals towards nationalism and bolster SNP support? |
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weld
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Post by weld on Sept 23, 2023 9:02:52 GMT
I think this trend also explains why the Tories can win in seats like Ayr and Aberdeenshire West at the Holyrood level. I'd argue the English-born vote was decisive in the Tories holding West Aberdeenshire & Kincardine in 2019. It will also help them in the new Gordon & Deeside constituency, I'd wager. There aren't very many English born residents in Ayr. Even Ayr West, which is one of the strongest Conservative wards in Scotland, is only around 10% English (with lower figures still in other Conservative coastal towns like Troon and Largs). There will be retirees moving here, but the majority will come from elsewhere in Scotland: probably Glasgow in particular, as many there have fond memories of going "doon the watter" to the Ayrshire coast and may seek to move there in retirement. In adddition, the South of Scotland has a rather different mix of English residents to the Highlands - I regularly visit Dumfries (having family and friends there) and it is noticeable that quite a lot of working age people are English even in the town. But they probably don't favour the Conservatives in the same way, not just because of their age but also because they're often more local migrants who have moved from Cumbria or the North East. You do get more of a Highland pattern in areas like rural Galloway, but the proximity of the border means these southern seats will always have a more heterogeneous mix of English arrivals. Similar to Scousers moving to North Wales in retirement. |
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Sept 23, 2023 10:06:19 GMT
Exactly the same pattern in my native corner of West Sutherland. From your experience, where are the English residents of the Highlands mainly from in England? I presume there’s many from London and the Home Counties, but I could be wrong. Also are there many Scottish residents from the central belt moving to these remote highland communities? Can’t say I’ve noticed any particular pattern, some are from London & Home Counties - my neighbours at home are from Cheshire. |
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Post by carlton43 on Sept 23, 2023 10:45:02 GMT
It is not counterintuitive and of course 'there is a reason for it'!! Do you think before you publish? No one goes to Wester Ross FOR a job! I will admit my thoughts were based on my knowledge of another isolated place which I have more knowledge about– the Falklands, where a large number of English people do end up so that they can fill jobs which locals do not have skills for. I'm not especially familiar with the present day nature of the economy of the rural Highlands. Interesting thoughts. I was a bit abrupt last night as out of sorts over the post of another member not allied to these at all. Apologies. However, there is always a reason for everything, there just has to be. The main difference between Falklands and Highlands is the nature of that remoteness. The Falklands are very remote from us back here in Britain, in a more hostile political and geographical environment. It is a genuinely closed society and one cannot be in urban civilization as quickly. The Highlands and Islands have the allure and romanticism of big seas, big vistas, big skies and the feeling of extreme remoteness whilst only being a few hours from everyday Britain : Thus the popularity to various groupings of outsiders. Those outsiders tend to be one of three sorts : The starry eyed 'gone completely native' crofting, crafts, learn Gaelic and enthusiastic SNP deploring the evil English; the colonisers who make it a bit like Surrey/Sussex abroad, with clubs, support groups, good works and 'improving' the lot of the natives that they now outnumber; and the loners who go a bit odd and have as little to do with others as possible whilst they do their own thing. It is a life-changing experience and makes one very much more self-reliant and much better organized. When one is a 4-hour round trip from a stamp/newspaper/pub/milk/supermarket it concentrates the mind wonderfully. Stock up. Never run out of anything. Plenty of candles and batteries. Own supply fuel. Chainsaw/shotgun/axes. You take to it or hate it quickly. It was rapidly on the way to depopulation and reverting to the wild because it is a tough life with insufficient income to retain the young; and a failure of government to provide the right sort of necessary support. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 23, 2023 11:32:12 GMT
I've heard some admittedly anecdotal accounts of English people who have moved to Scotland being "surprisingly" pro-SNP and independence.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Sept 23, 2023 11:38:56 GMT
Similar to Scousers moving to North Wales in retirement. Not exactly: the ones who do that generally do for sentimental reasons as they had a Welsh parent or grandparent. |
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Post by MacShimidh on Sept 23, 2023 11:52:24 GMT
I heard some admittedly anecdotal accounts of English people who have moved to Scotland being "surprisingly" pro-SNP and independence. It does seem to happen a lot more than you may expect, and perhaps deserves more analysis than it gets - I suspect that Nicola Sturgeon's popularity amongst a certain sort of English lefty was probably a key factor here, and whether this will continue now that she's gone remains to be seen. It's an interesting contrast with a lot of Scots who move south of the border seeming to be disproportionately right-wing. Based on nothing but pure anecdata, I'd say that a lot of northern English (particularly Yorkshire) have made Inverness itself their home in recent years, whereas southerners seem to prefer the surrounding towns and villages (especially the Grantown-on-Spey area, which is notably not in this seat). Perhaps not entirely unrelatedly, I was pretty bullish on the Tories' long-term prospects on the outgoing INBS seat, but most of their best areas have been shifted into Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey. This new Inverness seat seems a bit too heavy of a lift for them, IMO. |
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Post by batman on Sept 23, 2023 11:56:58 GMT
I heard some admittedly anecdotal accounts of English people who have moved to Scotland being "surprisingly" pro-SNP and independence. I have a very old friend (we go back 50 years now) who is English, lives in Edinburgh & is a member of the SNP. And of course English-born SNP politicians are far from unknown. |
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Sept 23, 2023 12:45:17 GMT
I've heard some admittedly anecdotal accounts of English people who have moved to Scotland being "surprisingly" pro-SNP and independence. In the case of the Highlands that’s because they attract a certain new-agey off the grid type. |
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 23, 2023 13:08:02 GMT
I've heard some admittedly anecdotal accounts of English people who have moved to Scotland being "surprisingly" pro-SNP and independence. In the case of the Highlands that’s because they attract a certain new-agey off the grid type. Good name for a settlement : "Ah, yes sir, that road'll take you to New Agey off the grid, so it will". |
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Post by ntyuk1707 on Sept 23, 2023 14:43:31 GMT
In terms of areas with a high proportion of English-born residents, there seems to be a Highland-Lowland divide in the sense that Lowland areas with a high percentage of English-born are strongly opposed to Scottish independence, whereas parts of the Highlands are significantly less so. For example, western Aberdeenshire, southern Perthshire, rural Stirlingshire, Loch Lomond, East Lothian, Scottish Borders, Dumfries & Galloway, north east Fife and central Edinburgh all returned higher No votes with a corresponding high English-born population. Argyll, Moray, rural Inverness-shire and Wester Ross were less empathetically against independence despite similar rates of English-born residents.
In Highland Council area, Wester Ross, Strathpeffer & Lochalsh and North, West & Central Sutherland had the highest % English-born at the 2011 Census with 25% of the population being born in England, despite the Wester Ross ward having had an estimated 56% Yes vote to independence and North, West & Central Sutherland having had an estimated 57% No vote to independence.
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Post by spinach on Sept 23, 2023 20:12:11 GMT
I've heard some admittedly anecdotal accounts of English people who have moved to Scotland being "surprisingly" pro-SNP and independence. Also anecdotal (based entirely on my own personal experience) but I find Scottish people more friendlier, down-to-earth and polite compared to the English. I find it quite a contrast when I come back to London and the South East. Perhaps some of pro-independence English residents of Scotland get use to the friendly and communitarian approach to life. |
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Sept 24, 2023 1:03:11 GMT
I've heard some admittedly anecdotal accounts of English people who have moved to Scotland being "surprisingly" pro-SNP and independence. Also anecdotal (based entirely on my own personal experience) but I find Scottish people more friendlier, down-to-earth and polite compared to the English. I find it quite a contrast when I come back to London and the South East. Perhaps some of pro-independence English residents of Scotland get use to the friendly and communitarian approach to life. Well, London's a foreign country, innit. |
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