Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 0:00:26 GMT
. Does being promoted mean he was no longer working class? that pretty much how it works, yes. Any other foolish questions? It rather depends on what he was promoted to...Did he go from E to Do, or D to C2? Also, believe it or not, one's background, class and accent doesn't change overnight. It would be foolish to believe it did....
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Member is Online
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Post by john07 on Mar 19, 2017 0:17:26 GMT
He's a chippy yob who claims a working class background he really doesn't have. His dad was a railway signalman, he was a steward on a ship.... upper-class oik! It's about par for the course. I have been flagged up, on here, as being upper middle class presumably because I am a graduate of a provincial red brick university and have been an employee of a couple of 1960s vintage technological universities and more recently a post 1992 former polytechnic. My maternal grandfather was also a signalman, after he retired as a beat bobby having previously worked as a coal miner. My paternal grandfather was a coal miner and latterly a storeman in a factory. My father was a roll turner (toolmaker) and my mother was a shop assistant in a greengrocery/fishmongers. I was born in a squat, brought up on a council estate, failed the 11+ examination and left school with a few GCE O Levels.
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Post by carlton43 on Mar 19, 2017 11:00:10 GMT
I fill shelves, by the sweat of my brow. That middle class lass who wanders around with a handset scanning tickets calling herself a stock controller is clearly middle class. Of course we know who is boss. I thought there was a distinctly musky odour about many packets in the store. Less brow sweat please.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,516
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Post by Khunanup on Mar 19, 2017 18:15:40 GMT
Do you think the best person will be someone who sees medicine as a vocation or someone who sees it as a way to own a porsche though. What is actually wrong with you? So far as I understand it, you are a junior manager at a garden centre. Would you care to explain to me precisely what gives you the standing to criticise the motivations of somebody working a night-shift in A&E? You describing anyone as out of touch is brave. I would like no one to be excluded from the political process by being unable to affords it. Now, that comes in many forms. When I was a councilor, the cost in lost overtime, lost promotion prospects, unpaid days off, the constant raffles/sponsorship you can hardly refuse was just about covered by my supposedly massive pay, which amounted to about £12k pa. But then I was in a middle paid job as befitting my middling intellect. The likes of CK or George Osbourne would be doing it out of noblesse oblige. Now the likes of Hedgehog may feel that folk should do politics out of conviction even at a financial cost to themselves, but there comes a point where a person with family commitments has trouble justifying the financial cost to kids for whom the boring social events and the abuse at school seem to provide little to compensate for the lack of a Xbox, skiing holiday, or whatever it is that their peers seem to get out of their parents simply earning money. This is similarly out of touch. £12k pa is massive pay for a councillor (and let's not pretend the job is substantially more demanding in Scotland - unless you're on Bolsover DC, I suspect the average English councillor pulls in way less per hour of actual work done than their Scottish equivalent.) The issue is not the harm suffered by the well-off middle-class councillor who can only go to Normandy instead of Provence for their two-week holiday. The issue is that if your main job is minimum wage, in a lot of places you simply can't afford to be a councillor. There is a reason most of the councillors I know are either under 25, long-term unemployed or well-off and middle class. For a unitary councillor £12k is only slightly on the high side. The lack of diversity is worse on second tier districts/boroughs where the allowances are much smaller.
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Mar 19, 2017 18:21:41 GMT
I fill shelves, by the sweat of my brow. That middle class lass who wanders around with a handset scanning tickets calling herself a stock controller is clearly middle class. Of course we know who is boss. What about the stocktake team that come in with their fancy scanners and count everything in your shop?
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Post by finsobruce on Mar 19, 2017 19:16:32 GMT
I fill shelves, by the sweat of my brow. That middle class lass who wanders around with a handset scanning tickets calling herself a stock controller is clearly middle class. Of course we know who is boss. What about the socktake team that come in with their fancy scanners and count everything in your shop? They only deal with socks. Not much help.
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neilm
Non-Aligned
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Post by neilm on Mar 20, 2017 9:01:33 GMT
What is actually wrong with you? So far as I understand it, you are a junior manager at a garden centre. Would you care to explain to me precisely what gives you the standing to criticise the motivations of somebody working a night-shift in A&E? You're a failed parliamentary candidate with a PhD in an obscure and irrelevant subject which fills his days doing bit part teaching because he is otherwise unemployable. What gives you the standing to criticise someone else's job? I'll tell you what gives hedgehog the standing to pass comment on the nature of A&E staffing: he's a taxpayer who's paying for it. So am I. And we're also the ones who have subsidised your expensive and seemingly pointless education. I disagree with his position but he's just as able to pass comment on it as anyone else.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Mar 20, 2017 12:44:29 GMT
What is actually wrong with you? So far as I understand it, you are a junior manager at a garden centre. Would you care to explain to me precisely what gives you the standing to criticise the motivations of somebody working a night-shift in A&E? This is similarly out of touch. £12k pa is massive pay for a councillor (and let's not pretend the job is substantially more demanding in Scotland - unless you're on Bolsover DC, I suspect the average English councillor pulls in way less per hour of actual work done than their Scottish equivalent.) The issue is not the harm suffered by the well-off middle-class councillor who can only go to Normandy instead of Provence for their two-week holiday. The issue is that if your main job is minimum wage, in a lot of places you simply can't afford to be a councillor. There is a reason most of the councillors I know are either under 25, long-term unemployed or well-off and middle class. For a unitary councillor £12k is only slightly on the high side. The lack of diversity is worse on second tier districts/boroughs where the allowances are much smaller. I will disagree with my honourable friend here. Pre-1999 we had two-tier. At District level we had a very diverse range of councillors. Well, by local government standards . A decent age range - some councillors in their 20s. Members in full-time work, in part-time work, self-employed and retired. We even had a former asylum seeker with a foreign name*. And a wide socio-economic range - hospital maintenance guy, railway guards and drivers, teachers, clerical, estate agents, farmers, a butcher etc etc Post-99 we have a unitary. Seeing councillors arrive for a meeting is like watching people arriving for a (male only) Day Care Centre or the local Lodge. Overwhelmingly male, average age about 70, massively middle class. Because you can't really combine unitary membership with full-time work. The higher allowances (tied to a greater time commitment) narrows diversity. IMO * Who is now a unitary councillor in a different area, but we'll let that pass.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,516
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Post by Khunanup on Mar 20, 2017 13:06:46 GMT
For a unitary councillor £12k is only slightly on the high side. The lack of diversity is worse on second tier districts/boroughs where the allowances are much smaller. I will disagree with my honourable friend here. Pre-1999 we had two-tier. At District level we had a very diverse range of councillors. Well, by local government standards . A decent age range - some councillors in their 20s. Members in full-time work, in part-time work, self-employed and retired. We even had a former asylum seeker with a foreign name*. And a wide socio-economic range - hospital maintenance guy, railway guards and drivers, teachers, clerical, estate agents, farmers, a butcher etc etc Post-99 we have a unitary. Seeing councillors arrive for a meeting is like watching people arriving for a (male only) Day Care Centre or the local Lodge. Overwhelmingly male, average age about 70, massively middle class. Because you can't really combine unitary membership with full-time work. The higher allowances (tied to a greater time commitment) narrows diversity. IMO * Who is now a unitary councillor in a different area, but we'll let that pass. I forgot about the stupid, overly geographically huge, unitaries where you are quite right. If you compare and contrast any of the South Coast urban unitaries with their surrounding boroughs/districts (and I suspect a similar pattern around the other 1990s era urban unitaries) there's quite a marked difference, especially age-wise.
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Post by slicesofjim on Mar 20, 2017 14:47:12 GMT
What is actually wrong with you? So far as I understand it, you are a junior manager at a garden centre. Would you care to explain to me precisely what gives you the standing to criticise the motivations of somebody working a night-shift in A&E? You're a failed parliamentary candidate with a PhD in an obscure and irrelevant subject which fills his days doing bit part teaching because he is otherwise unemployable. What gives you the standing to criticise someone else's job? I'll tell you what gives hedgehog the standing to pass comment on the nature of A&E staffing: he's a taxpayer who's paying for it. So am I. And we're also the ones who have subsidised your expensive and seemingly pointless education. I disagree with his position but he's just as able to pass comment on it as anyone else. He didn't criticise his job, he simply pointed out that in his line of work he wouldn't have any clue as to the motivations of people entering the medical profession. He is free to have an opinion, but that doesn't mean others aren't free to find his views to be utter nonsense.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Mar 20, 2017 22:01:14 GMT
What is actually wrong with you? So far as I understand it, you are a junior manager at a garden centre. Would you care to explain to me precisely what gives you the standing to criticise the motivations of somebody working a night-shift in A&E? You're a failed parliamentary candidate with a PhD in an obscure and irrelevant subject which fills his days doing bit part teaching because he is otherwise unemployable. What gives you the standing to criticise someone else's job? I'll tell you what gives hedgehog the standing to pass comment on the nature of A&E staffing: he's a taxpayer who's paying for it. So am I. And we're also the ones who have subsidised your expensive and seemingly pointless education. I disagree with his position but he's just as able to pass comment on it as anyone else. Neil, I would recommend checking who funded my Ph. D. (I would recommend checking whether I actually finished it.) I would recommend checking what my actual employment is. I think what I'm saying is that you're a cunt, but that's a bit of a dog bites man story. You get to complain about how much hospital staff get paid. It's a pretty pointless exercise, but you're perfectly entitled to it. You really don't get to criticise the motivation of said staff. If you want to criticise the motivation of people who work unsociable hours in frequently unpleasant conditions, the fact you made an infinitesimal contribution to their salaries doesn't really justify fighting words. Also, you're a cunt. Just so we're clear.
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Post by carlton43 on Mar 20, 2017 22:09:41 GMT
I think your drilling is getting quite close to the oil neil?? Unpleasant gurgling sounds and a lick of flame and a smell of sulphur.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 22:16:41 GMT
Can both sides lay off personal insults?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 22:19:41 GMT
And now back to Parliamentary By-Elections - Rumoured and Ramped
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Post by lennon on Mar 20, 2017 22:39:13 GMT
And now back to Parliamentary By-Elections - Rumoured and Ramped So... as we've not heard anything yet about either Andy Burnham or Steve Rotherham resigning their seats - is it safe to presume that they are not planning on 'assuming' a successful Mayoral election and we are thus likely to have elections in June or similar?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 22:40:32 GMT
And now back to Parliamentary By-Elections - Rumoured and Ramped So... as we've not heard anything yet about either Andy Burnham or Steve Rotherham resigning their seats - is it safe to presume that they are not planning on 'assuming' a successful election and we are thus likely to have elections in June or similar? I think both would rather not be part of the immediate post-Copeland narrative. Get their Mayoral elections won ("Labour win Mayoral contests in both Northern powerhouses, etc etc") then stand down.
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Mar 21, 2017 9:36:54 GMT
Osborne hints he may step down as MP According to the Times, former Chancellor George Osborne has “hinted” that he could stand down as MP for Tatton.
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Merseymike
Independent
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 23, 2017 16:47:40 GMT
So... as we've not heard anything yet about either Andy Burnham or Steve Rotherham resigning their seats - is it safe to presume that they are not planning on 'assuming' a successful election and we are thus likely to have elections in June or similar? I think both would rather not be part of the immediate post-Copeland narrative. Get their Mayoral elections won ("Labour win Mayoral contests in both Northern powerhouses, etc etc") then stand down. There's was never any intent to resign the seats unless the Mayoral elections were won by Labour. It would be the height of arrogance to do so.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 21:03:29 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 21:28:15 GMT
Through the Electoral Reform Society?
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