The time for this was at the start of the process, when an all-party approach may have come up with a solution which could have carried a majority Whatever the reasons and whoever is at fault, I don't think its a likely option now
Don't disagree about the timing and I can't see a grand bargain with Labour on the Withdrawal Agreement, Corbyn is simply too weak to carry that. That doesn't rule out a lax whipping operation and convenient absences on the day - but I think that's all that Corbyn could deliver now that McDonnell seems to have abandoned him.
However the deal that I think will get through will be one which the DUP can vote for, which will be around the backstop.
Sigh....don't believe everything you read in the media. There is no split between Corbyn and McDonnell. haven't you heard of 'good cop, bad cop'? or the need to try and keep the unions on board - or at least, one union!
At this stage too much has happened to make formal whipping very meaningful at all. In both Labour and Tory parties And on one level, it may have been better if that had been the case right from the start on the Brexit issue. Free votes and all party working. With an agreed understanding that the referendum was to be implemented.
Not sure if EFTA\EEA is going to affect the Withdrawal Agreement debate, except to turn off a few of the Labour rebels due to free movement and also pushing some ERGers back into rebellion on sovereignty grounds.
The only way I can see it working to get the Withdrawal Agreement through would be as a deal with either Labour or the SNP. Corbyn probably couldn't get any deal through his party even if he was interested in EFTA\EEA (and I've seen no evidence that he understands the concept let alone agrees with it) and the SNP which is quietly warmer towards EFTA\EEA won't do a deal without Labour already on board unless there's a referendum attached - and Boris could do that but I strongly doubt it.
I say "tomayto" you say Withdrawal Agreement.. I say "potayto" you say Withdrawal Agreement...
It's dead.... you are stuck early on the in the Kubler-Ross Process. The UK can announce a departure to EFTA without a WA.... can kicked down road.. then to subvert the EFTA for greater purposes..
EFTA has to accept the UK, and Norway is almost certain to veto if the EU tell them to.
The Withdrawal Agreement is dead, everyone says so. I strongly suspect that the same Withdrawal Agreement, with small modifications, will be what we end up with.
The simple fact is that this is the closest we've got to agreement.
What does a GE achieve?. Its almost a racing certainty we will be back in the same place with no Party having an overall majority so all you have done is waste 6 weeks.
I can see the argument for a GE after the 31st Oct once we have left - then the country can decide on the direction we should take for the future
We have an incohate HOC unable to agree on any of numerous options under Brexit. If Johnson can get us out by the end of October, then he can attempt to soldier on and both Labour and Conservatives can start internal reconstruction after the Brexit damage. If he can't get us out by any mrthod then I think it become a necessity to seek public validation of the stand taken by each party and each MP. I think that if the Conservatives are the sole established party fighting for a full and real Brexit they will gain a clear win with a working majority.
I plumed for no for 3 reasons. His shapeshifter/mendacious nature as mentioned above, also his predisposition to fuck up and lastly no politicians either side of the stream are going to risk the scatathon of no-deal just to keep their word.
"Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth." - Lucy Parsons
Poorly phrased by me. The Withdrawal Agreement is the only game in town if you don't want the political consequences of Revoke (with or without a referendum) or the economic consequences of No Deal.
This side of an election. I think after an election a "softer" Brexit may be possible using the jargon - but that's assuming by then anyone is asking for it.
The arithmetic all depends on the DUP. If they stay opposed then we will need a General Election as the grand bargain with Labour is out of the window as well, and the chances of getting enough rebel Labour MPs is small.
If they stop being opposed then the government is very close to a majority.
My reading of the DUP position is that they dislike all the alternatives to passing the Withdrawal Agreement in this Parliament more than they dislike the Withdrawal Agreement. They don't like Revoke as they will be blamed for keeping us in the EU both by their base and by their only real allies in Great Britain, they don't like a second referendum as they will also be blamed and they will find themselves on the wrong side of a lot of moderate Unionist opinion, a General Election means they will almost certainly lose parliamentary leverage and No Deal means that the Union is going to be the go to scapegoat for every No Deal inconvenience.
They need a ladder to climb down, which shouldn't be too hard to construct (although the Irish government needs a similar ladder, which may make things more complex).
The "grand bargain" with Labour won't happen now. It's just too late.
Corbyn was always willing to do it. May wouldn't budge. Red lines and all that - its mildly amusing to hear her talk about the need for consensus now. Did she seriously think a so-called 'moderate' Labour leader would be more willing to reach an agreement. Just shows how the Tories don't understand Labour.
But now the strong Remainers have achieved too much in terms of shifting Labour to make that a practical option.