Strontium Dog
Lib Dem
Liberalism: Does exactly what it says on the tin
Posts: 2,256 
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Post by Strontium Dog on Jan 31, 2019 14:12:32 GMT
It's inarguable that the Russians interfered in the referendum. I therefore question the motivation of those people who are arguing with an indisputable fact. It is eminently arguable as there is little or no evidence and the effects on individual voters was the square root of zilch. And of course you know that all along. You just persist in all these silly damn fool statements because you are the very model of a modern sore loser par excellence. The EU and many prominent EU persons, the POTUS and a raft of foreign celebs interfered in our Referendum on the Remain side to spread lies and poison and to ramp up the Caucus of Fear upon which you are silent because it does not fit your agenda of lying nonsense and fake bloody truth. You are an utter disgrace to your party and I am amazed they put up with your arrant witless continual drip feed of utter shite. I'd look in the mirror for an arrant witless drip feed of shite if I were you. You can keep on denying reality if you want. The facts of the matter are what they are and time will make that crystal clear even for the deniers. |
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spqr
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,225
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Post by spqr on Jan 31, 2019 14:15:12 GMT
It is eminently arguable as there is little or no evidence and the effects on individual voters was the square root of zilch. And of course you know that all along. You just persist in all these silly damn fool statements because you are the very model of a modern sore loser par excellence. The EU and many prominent EU persons, the POTUS and a raft of foreign celebs interfered in our Referendum on the Remain side to spread lies and poison and to ramp up the Caucus of Fear upon which you are silent because it does not fit your agenda of lying nonsense and fake bloody truth. You are an utter disgrace to your party and I am amazed they put up with your arrant witless continual drip feed of utter shite. I'd look in the mirror for an arrant witless drip feed of shite if I were you. You can keep on denying reality if you want. The facts of the matter are what they are and time will make that crystal clear even for the deniers. Everyone has facts: it's the inherent selectivity in the use of them that leads to a narrative, which in turn fuels the sort of echo chambers we see now. Some are aware of this, but others aren't. You seem to be in the latter category. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 31, 2019 14:18:08 GMT
It's inarguable that the Russians interfered in the referendum. I therefore question the motivation of those people who are arguing with an indisputable fact. It is certainly unarguable that the (Southern) Irish interfered in the referendum but we hear little about that from remainerbots like you. This took the form of direct intervention by Irish government ministers and hundreds of thousands if Irish citizens casting votes. No Russian citizens had a vote - the only Russians who would have had a vote would be those who were naturalised British citizens (or some perhaps who had become citizens of the Irish Republic, Cyprus, Malta or other Commonwealth nations) |
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Strontium Dog
Lib Dem
Liberalism: Does exactly what it says on the tin
Posts: 2,256
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Post by Strontium Dog on Jan 31, 2019 14:22:40 GMT
I'd look in the mirror for an arrant witless drip feed of shite if I were you. You can keep on denying reality if you want. The facts of the matter are what they are and time will make that crystal clear even for the deniers. Everyone has facts: it's the inherent selectivity in the use of them that leads to a narrative, which in turn fuels the sort of echo chambers we see now. Some are aware of this, but others aren't. You seem to be in the latter category. I'm in the category that sees it as unacceptable that a hostile power utilised 150,000 Twitter accounts to push this country towards a damaging course of action. Others are free to put themselves in the category that sees that as non-problematic if they want. |
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Jack
Non-Aligned
Forever wondering why we didn't just join EFTA.
Posts: 4,696
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Post by Jack on Jan 31, 2019 14:56:35 GMT
I was a staunch Remainer until a Russian bot on Twitter that I never even saw said that Brexit would be great.
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Post by daniel121 on Jan 31, 2019 15:01:58 GMT
OK guys, I know I'm a new member and the majority of the country respect the vote, let's not allow this topic to be moved into a debate on some wild eyed conspiracy theory. As for leave cheating I think it was 6 of one half a dozen of the other. www.economicvoice.com/who-cheated-most-leave-or-remain/How about we concentrate on the now and getting the best for the country, as opposed to dividing it more |
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Post by daniel121 on Jan 31, 2019 15:04:40 GMT
It is eminently arguable as there is little or no evidence and the effects on individual voters was the square root of zilch. And of course you know that all along. You just persist in all these silly damn fool statements because you are the very model of a modern sore loser par excellence. The EU and many prominent EU persons, the POTUS and a raft of foreign celebs interfered in our Referendum on the Remain side to spread lies and poison and to ramp up the Caucus of Fear upon which you are silent because it does not fit your agenda of lying nonsense and fake bloody truth. You are an utter disgrace to your party and I am amazed they put up with your arrant witless continual drip feed of utter shite. I'd look in the mirror for an arrant witless drip feed of shite if I were you. You can keep on denying reality if you want. The facts of the matter are what they are and time will make that crystal clear even for the deniers. I'm going to say you may be right, in my opinion that is highly unlikely. I think we would be better off excepting what the public has told us if our democracy has any chance of survival. |
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slon
Non-Aligned
Posts: 6,192
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Post by slon on Jan 31, 2019 16:38:06 GMT
I'd look in the mirror for an arrant witless drip feed of shite if I were you. You can keep on denying reality if you want. The facts of the matter are what they are and time will make that crystal clear even for the deniers. I'm going to say you may be right, in my opinion that is highly unlikely. I think we would be better off excepting what the public has told us if our democracy has any chance of survival. Excepting is an excellent word in this context. |
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 6,886
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Post by Crimson King on Jan 31, 2019 17:12:12 GMT
What exactly did the electorate say about the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic? Nothing. Point apart from trying to set up a strawman argument that is? well, mainly that I’m mightily peed off by people who say ‘politicians should enact the will of the people’ as if its that simple. The ‘people’ said bugger all about any of the essential details of the process and the best politicians can do is guess what the mood was then and what it might imply for myriads of reasons. For the record I don’t want another vote for all the same reasons I thought the first one was a bloody stupid idea, the above being one of them. |
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Post by greenrichard on Jan 31, 2019 17:42:40 GMT
The leader of remain said it was a once in a life time decision...
Did anyone give him authority to make such a pronouncement?
Thought not. I’ll continue to campaign for what I think would be in the country’s best interest and accept that others with opposing views will make their own case.
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Post by daniel121 on Jan 31, 2019 17:47:43 GMT
Nothing. Point apart from trying to set up a strawman argument that is? well, mainly that I’m mightily peed off by people who say ‘politicians should enact the will of the people’ as if its that simple. The ‘people’ said bugger all about any of the essential details of the process and the best politicians can do is guess what the mood was then and what it might imply for myriads of reasons. For the record I don’t want another vote for all the same reasons I thought the first one was a bloody stupid idea, the above being one of them. Well it is that simple, The actual wording on the Brexit referendum was as follows Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union? - Remain a member of the European Union - Leave the European Union That was what was decided, if a second referendum should exist, it would only be to decide the manner of leaving, after all that's what's in dispute. However I agree with you that would be pointless waste of money and would give our negotiation teams hand away should it happen. The question needs to be concise, if you had every little detail on it nobody would ever vote, the vote slip would be a book and super drug would run out if paracetamols 😂 |
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Post by daniel121 on Jan 31, 2019 17:50:23 GMT
The leader of remain said it was a once in a life time decision... Did anyone give him authority to make such a pronouncement? Thought not. I’ll continue to campaign for what I think would be in the country’s best interest and accept that others with opposing views will make their own case. Well he was the most senior political figure in the country at the time and the only PM to get an elected majority government in the last decade, and he was the leader of the remain campaign. I'd say he had the authority to say this. |
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Post by Antiochian on Jan 31, 2019 17:52:44 GMT
It is eminently arguable as there is little or no evidence and the effects on individual voters was the square root of zilch. And of course you know that all along. You just persist in all these silly damn fool statements because you are the very model of a modern sore loser par excellence. The EU and many prominent EU persons, the POTUS and a raft of foreign celebs interfered in our Referendum on the Remain side to spread lies and poison and to ramp up the Caucus of Fear upon which you are silent because it does not fit your agenda of lying nonsense and fake bloody truth. You are an utter disgrace to your party and I am amazed they put up with your arrant witless continual drip feed of utter shite. I'd look in the mirror for an arrant witless drip feed of shite if I were you. You can keep on denying reality if you want. The facts of the matter are what they are and time will make that crystal clear even for the deniers. Link!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by theprole on Feb 1, 2019 0:33:22 GMT
Everyone has facts: it's the inherent selectivity in the use of them that leads to a narrative, which in turn fuels the sort of echo chambers we see now. Some are aware of this, but others aren't. You seem to be in the latter category. I'm in the category that sees it as unacceptable that a hostile power utilised 150,000 Twitter accounts to push this country towards a damaging course of action. Others are free to put themselves in the category that sees that as non-problematic if they want. Frankly, if all the Russians can manage to do about foreign affairs these days is tweet about them, I'm not yet quite reduced to trembling in my boots. Apart from anything else, the polling through the campaign suggests very little of any of the campaign made any difference to anyone. Given that the media spent 3 months talking of little else, with hours of airtime given to both sides, I can't really see that it was a blast of hot air on twitter (home of the entrenched opinion if ever there was one) that got leave over the line. |
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GoodOldCause
Non-Aligned
"La politique, c’est comme l’andouillette, ça doit sentir un peu la merde mais pas trop"
Posts: 1,523
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Post by GoodOldCause on Feb 1, 2019 9:03:44 GMT
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hedgehog
Green
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Posts: 6,481
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Post by hedgehog on Feb 1, 2019 10:13:27 GMT
It's inarguable that the Russians interfered in the referendum. I therefore question the motivation of those people who are arguing with an indisputable fact. Didn't the IMF, the American president, leaders of EU nations and multinational corporations interfere on behalf of Remain. |
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hedgehog
Green
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Posts: 6,481
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Post by hedgehog on Feb 1, 2019 10:17:43 GMT
Everyone has facts: it's the inherent selectivity in the use of them that leads to a narrative, which in turn fuels the sort of echo chambers we see now. Some are aware of this, but others aren't. You seem to be in the latter category. I'm in the category that sees it as unacceptable that a hostile power utilised 150,000 Twitter accounts to push this country towards a damaging course of action. Others are free to put themselves in the category that sees that as non-problematic if they want. Although this is never talked about, don't Western nations also covertly and sometimes openly try to influence the result of foreign elections. |
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Post by carlton43 on Feb 1, 2019 10:23:16 GMT
It is eminently arguable as there is little or no evidence and the effects on individual voters was the square root of zilch. And of course you know that all along. You just persist in all these silly damn fool statements because you are the very model of a modern sore loser par excellence. The EU and many prominent EU persons, the POTUS and a raft of foreign celebs interfered in our Referendum on the Remain side to spread lies and poison and to ramp up the Caucus of Fear upon which you are silent because it does not fit your agenda of lying nonsense and fake bloody truth. You are an utter disgrace to your party and I am amazed they put up with your arrant witless continual drip feed of utter shite. I'd look in the mirror for an arrant witless drip feed of shite if I were you. You can keep on denying reality if you want. The facts of the matter are what they are and time will make that crystal clear even for the deniers. I have always associated mirrors with reflected images rather than text or word? But assume you don't have one as you would see nothing in it if in front of it yourself! |
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Post by finsobruce on Feb 1, 2019 10:28:28 GMT
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andrew111
Lib Dem
Posts: 2,283
Member is Online
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Post by andrew111 on Feb 1, 2019 11:22:51 GMT
The problem with spin is that it works, particularly when it appears to be coming from the bottom up, not the top down. Cummings understood this much better than the Remain campaign, which is why Leave won on that one day in 2016.
On the OP, I presume that the OP would be perfectly happy with Norway+++, staying in all the EU institutions, paying the same money, but just not getting any EuroMPs. That is 100% compatible with what 52% voted for.
What I really object to is all this "the People voted against FOM" or the ECJ, or whatever the current Brexiteer hobby horse is. Such evidence as there is suggests there is no majority for any version of Brexit, yet we have to ignore the 48% (now 55%) and pick one of them
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