The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,309
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Post by The Bishop on Jul 15, 2018 9:26:13 GMT
On direct democracy, I think we may need more of it despite the Brexit experience. Populism thrives on the notion that "everyone" thinks X; this needs to be tested more often to either bin some propositions or to take due account of the majority, however unpalatable it might be to liberals. As ArmchairCritic has said, Brexit might not have happened if we'd had as many referendums as the Irish from Maastricht on - the EU, esp. the Commission, might have been given some headaches but it'd have done them good in the long term. But it needs a framework. Brexit is the textbook "how not to" - an "advisory" referendum that isn't advisory, a simple majority which could be reversed by demography within two years allegedly binding us for decades to come, no clear proposition for the winning option etc. The bind we're in now is due to the Parliamentary arithmetic resulting from the '17 GE which in turn is down to the lack of any clear public majority for any one approach to Europe. The one thing a referendum is supposed to do is establish an agreed national position and this one just bloody hasn't, it's established that there is no position - hard Brexit, soft Brexit, Remain - with a consensus. Cameron screwed all of us.Of course he did, and now May is trying to screw us in turn. -just she's not as good at it as Cameron was The one and only respect where I feel some sympathy for our incumbent PM, is the scale of the mess her predecessor left her. Cameron should have been a royal, not an elected politician - "acting the part" was almost the only thing he was actually good at.
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Post by yellowperil on Jul 15, 2018 11:33:58 GMT
Of course he did, and now May is trying to screw us in turn. -just she's not as good at it as Cameron was The one and only respect where I feel some sympathy for our incumbent PM, is the scale of the mess her predecessor left her. Cameron should have been a royal, not an elected politician - "acting the part" was almost the only thing he was actually good at. Leading Labour politician wants Cameron to have a royal title.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 11:41:26 GMT
The one and only respect where I feel some sympathy for our incumbent PM, is the scale of the mess her predecessor left her. Cameron should have been a royal, not an elected politician - "acting the part" was almost the only thing he was actually good at. Leading Labour politician wants Cameron to have a royal title. He IS a descendent of King William IV....
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Post by yellowperil on Jul 15, 2018 11:50:00 GMT
Leading Labour politician wants Cameron to have a royal title. He IS a descendent of King William IV.... Who is? Not The Bishop surely?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 12:01:59 GMT
He IS a descendent of King William IV.... Who is? Not The Bishop surely? The Bishop might be too, for all I know, but I was referring to David Cameron. Boris Johnson has seniority, as a descendant of George II via the first King of Wurttemberg (of whom Napoleon Bonaparte remarked that God had created him to demonstrate the utmost extent to which the human skin could be stretched without bursting).
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Post by yellowperil on Jul 15, 2018 12:14:05 GMT
The Bishop might be too, for all I know, but I was referring to David Cameron. Boris Johnson has seniority, as a descendant of George II via the first King of Wurttemberg (of whom Napoleon Bonaparte remarked that God had created him to demonstrate the utmost extent to which the human skin could be stretched without bursting). Why not just go back to Charles II and then you can include most of us. Allegedly
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Post by tonygreaves on Jul 15, 2018 18:43:10 GMT
Has anyone got the full figures for this poll, or don't people bother any more? Get your cheap quick headlines and go and lie down in the sun...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 21:03:54 GMT
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Post by swanarcadian on Jul 15, 2018 21:48:05 GMT
The Bishop might be too, for all I know, but I was referring to David Cameron. Boris Johnson has seniority, as a descendant of George II via the first King of Wurttemberg (of whom Napoleon Bonaparte remarked that God had created him to demonstrate the utmost extent to which the human skin could be stretched without bursting). Why not just go back to Charles II and then you can include most of us. Allegedly The trick is proving it. I've been researching my ancestry on and off for nearly a decade now but haven't been able to find anyone of blue blood. At least not yet.
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middyman
Conservative
"The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of other people's money."
Posts: 8,050
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Post by middyman on Jul 15, 2018 22:03:31 GMT
Why not just go back to Charles II and then you can include most of us. Allegedly The trick is proving it. I've been researching my ancestry on and off for nearly a decade now but haven't been able to find anyone of blue blood. At least not yet. The maiden name of my great-grandmother was Camroux. The rumour in the family was that we were descended from Le Conte Camroux, who fled France during the revolution. Ancestral research revealed that, far from French aristocracy, we were descended from Huguenot peasants. I cannot recommend Ancestry Research.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jul 15, 2018 22:26:09 GMT
The trick is proving it. I've been researching my ancestry on and off for nearly a decade now but haven't been able to find anyone of blue blood. At least not yet. The maiden name of my great-grandmother was Camroux. The rumour in the family was that we were descended from Le Conte Camroux, who fled France during the revolution. Ancestral research revealed that, far from French aristocracy, we were descended from Huguenot peasants. I cannot recommend Ancestry Research. It seems that your ancestors were willing to adopt a minority position despite having no wealth or privilege to protect them from persecution, and then were willing to leave their native land rather than concede on a matter of conscience, and had the excellent good sense to come to England. I can't see your problem. I once had a lecturer with an aristocratic French surname; he said the family were indeed descended from a French Baron, it was just unfortunate that the Baron in question was a con-artist who had awarded the title to himself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 9:15:43 GMT
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Jul 16, 2018 9:30:45 GMT
He IS a descendent of King William IV.... Who is? Not The Bishop surely? No, not me AFAIK. Though there is a local pub called the King Billy, and I play for their quiz team that has won the local league 3 of the last 5 seasons.
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middyman
Conservative
"The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of other people's money."
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Post by middyman on Jul 16, 2018 9:37:18 GMT
No, not me AFAIK. Though there is a local pub called the King Billy, and I play for their quiz team that has won the local league 3 of the last 5 seasons. Quizzes reminds me of a classic Local Authority thought process. The local sports centre held a quiz once with a prize of £100 - worth entering. A group of us decided to do so and won. We entered again the next year and once more were victorious. We wondered if we should declare the winnings to the Inland Revenue as part of our regular income (!) but the quiz was never held again.
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seanf
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Post by seanf on Aug 20, 2018 10:10:38 GMT
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Deleted
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Opinium
Aug 20, 2018 18:18:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 18:18:02 GMT
Around 27% of people think there are Islamaphobic Tories including Boris. That seems a bit higher than I expected. I was particular surprised it's not highest amongst Labour voters but Lib Dems & Greens
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hedgehog
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Opinium
Aug 21, 2018 19:46:47 GMT
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Post by hedgehog on Aug 21, 2018 19:46:47 GMT
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Deleted
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Opinium
Aug 21, 2018 20:12:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 20:12:47 GMT
its probably not a vote winner amongst the 50% of Lib Dems & Greens that think Toties are Islamaphobic
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hedgehog
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Opinium
Aug 21, 2018 20:15:23 GMT
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Post by hedgehog on Aug 21, 2018 20:15:23 GMT
its probably not a vote winner amongst the 50% of Lib Dems & Greens that think Toties are Islamaphobic The majority of the British population can be considered Islamaphobic, Lib Dem and Green voters won't generally consider voting Tory anyway.
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Post by greenchristian on Aug 21, 2018 22:09:19 GMT
its probably not a vote winner amongst the 50% of Lib Dems & Greens that think Toties are Islamaphobic Or in any of the constituencies with a sizeable Islamic population.
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