pl
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Post by pl on Jul 23, 2019 12:15:15 GMT
But PR would likely hit the Lib Dems hardest of all. Under (non-AV) PR systems there simply isn't a place in the political system for a "Dustbin of Wasted Votes" party. It would split, and people currently attracted to them would head off to ever more niche parties. I agree entirely. My estimate (fwiw) has long been is that we would do marginally better than the FDP in Germany but nothing like 15% or 20%. But I still think STV is the best electoral system.
The 2015 general election would probably provide a good guide: around 8%.
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polupolu
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Liberal (Democrat). Socially Liberal, Economically Keynesian.
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Post by polupolu on Jul 23, 2019 12:17:48 GMT
That would be the right order of magnitude.
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polupolu
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Liberal (Democrat). Socially Liberal, Economically Keynesian.
Posts: 1,161
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Post by polupolu on Jul 23, 2019 12:18:03 GMT
I agree entirely. My estimate (fwiw) has long been is that we would do marginally better than the FDP in Germany but nothing like 15% or 20%. But I still think STV is the best electoral system.
The 2015 general election would probably provide a good guide: around 8%. That would be the right order of magnitude.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 23, 2019 14:07:07 GMT
But PR would likely hit the Lib Dems hardest of all. Under (non-AV) PR systems there simply isn't a place in the political system for a "Dustbin of Wasted Votes" party. It would split, and people currently attracted to them would head off to ever more niche parties. I agree entirely. My estimate (fwiw) has long been is that we would do marginally better than the FDP in Germany but nothing like 15% or 20%. But I still think STV is the best electoral system.
Ah, memories of Westerwelle dancing around on German television (Stefan Raab, I think), singing "achtzehn Prozent" to the tune of the YMCA. Different times.
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 23, 2019 14:12:35 GMT
I agree entirely. My estimate (fwiw) has long been is that we would do marginally better than the FDP in Germany but nothing like 15% or 20%. But I still think STV is the best electoral system.
Ah, memories of Westerwelle dancing around on German television (Stefan Raab, I think), singing "achtzehn Prozent" to the tune of the YMCA. Different times. A well-known name to all Eurovision fans (and yes, this really did come 5th, and the UK televote gave it 5 points so placed it 6th, before anyone says anything disparaging...Spain, Switzerland and Austria placed it first) Also - just noticed that in 2000 the Maltese entrant was Claudette Pace, now Buttigieg (not sure if a relative of Pete) who later became a National MP and is currently deputy Speaker of the Maltese parliament
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 15:11:51 GMT
It would be amusing if Angela Smith defected to the Lib Dems.
Her seat voted 62% Leave, but is next door to Sheffield, Hallam.
The Lib Dems had half the Councillors in that seat pre 2010. Labour had 0.
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Jul 23, 2019 20:45:24 GMT
Ah, memories of Westerwelle dancing around on German television (Stefan Raab, I think), singing "achtzehn Prozent" to the tune of the YMCA. Different times. A well-known name to all Eurovision fans (and yes, this really did come 5th, and the UK televote gave it 5 points so placed it 6th, before anyone says anything disparaging...Spain, Switzerland and Austria placed it first) Also - just noticed that in 2000 the Maltese entrant was Claudette Pace, now Buttigieg ( not sure if a relative of Pete) who later became a National MP and is currently deputy Speaker of the Maltese parliament Raab ended up hosting Schlag den Raab (now Schlag den Star) on occasional Saturday nights on RTL. BIB: more to the point, is Claudette any relative of this year's Eurovision entrant, Michela Pace? Or is that just a very common surname in Malta? Upthread, you were correct about the practical effect of STV too. It would not be appropriate for elections to either chamber of the UK Parliament.
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 23, 2019 20:52:43 GMT
It's a common Maltese surname There aren't that many!
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 23, 2019 22:47:16 GMT
Raab is probably the biggest star in German comedy even now. Possibly only Mirja Bös (who is funny) and Carolin Kekebus (who isn't as funny as she thinks) is close these days.
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jul 23, 2019 23:25:01 GMT
It would be amusing if Angela Smith defected to the Lib Dems. Her seat voted 62% Leave, but is next door to Sheffield, Hallam. The Lib Dems had half the Councillors in that seat pre 2010. Labour had 0. Who had the other half? There weren't that many Greens.
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Jul 24, 2019 0:40:35 GMT
It would be amusing if Angela Smith defected to the Lib Dems. Her seat voted 62% Leave, but is next door to Sheffield, Hallam. The Lib Dems had half the Councillors in that seat pre 2010. Labour had 0. Who had the other half? There weren't that many Greens. 6 Conservatives and 3 Barnsley Independent Group. Remember half the seat is in Barnsley.
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jul 24, 2019 7:46:06 GMT
Who had the other half? There weren't that many Greens. 6 Conservatives and 3 Barnsley Independent Group. Remember half the seat is in Barnsley. Thanks, I read it as referring to Hallam.
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Jul 24, 2019 21:25:32 GMT
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Post by tonygreaves on Jul 25, 2019 11:06:05 GMT
Low Key Posting. Lords Defections.
Two LD peers have resigned the whip this week, both because they do not agree with the party line on Brexit. One is Baroness (Kishwer) Falkner of Margravine who has voted against or abstained on the party line on most of the Brexit votes in the Lords, and has a history of dissent on various issues though she has been Foreign Affairs spokesperson at various times. She was made a life peer in 2004 and previously worked at party HQ as foreign affairs policy officer. I don't think it will cause any minor earthquakes here. The other is a LD hereditary, the Earl of Oxford and Asquith (Raymond Asquith) who won a hereditary peers by-election in 2014. I would not say he has worked his passage since then and most members of the party here would probably not recognise him in the street. His peerage is of course the one conferred on Herbert Asquith (Mr Asquith) the former Liberal PM. Just two of the series of minor changes in label here which are being caused by Brexit. I think this bonny pair will sit as non-affiliated for the time being at least.
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Harry Hayfield
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Jul 25, 2019 12:56:15 GMT
Low Key Posting. Lords Defections. Two LD peers have resigned the whip this week, both because they do not agree with the party line on Brexit. One is Baroness (Kishwer) Falkner of Margravine who has voted against or abstained on the party line on most of the Brexit votes in the Lords, and has a history of dissent on various issues though she has been Foreign Affairs spokesperson at various times. She was made a life peer in 2004 and previously worked at party HQ as foreign affairs policy officer. I don't think it will cause any minor earthquakes here. The other is a LD hereditary, the Earl of Oxford and Asquith (Raymond Asquith) who won a hereditary peers by-election in 2014. I would not say he has worked his passage since then and most members of the party here would probably not recognise him in the street. His peerage is of course the one conferred on Herbert Asquith (Mr Asquith) the former Liberal PM. Just two of the series of minor changes in label here which are being caused by Brexit. I think this bonny pair will sit as non-affiliated for the time being at least. So that Stephen in Eastbourne who has resigned the Lib Dem whip over Brexit and now two peers. I wonder if the next election will be LEAVE alliance (Con, Brexit, DUP, UUP), REMAIN alliance (Lib Dem, Plaid, SNP, SDLP, Green, Alliance Party), Labour and Others. If so then would the REMAIN alliance welcome Sinn Fein?
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jul 25, 2019 12:59:59 GMT
Low Key Posting. Lords Defections. Two LD peers have resigned the whip this week, both because they do not agree with the party line on Brexit. One is Baroness (Kishwer) Falkner of Margravine who has voted against or abstained on the party line on most of the Brexit votes in the Lords, and has a history of dissent on various issues though she has been Foreign Affairs spokesperson at various times. She was made a life peer in 2004 and previously worked at party HQ as foreign affairs policy officer. I don't think it will cause any minor earthquakes here. The other is a LD hereditary, the Earl of Oxford and Asquith (Raymond Asquith) who won a hereditary peers by-election in 2014. I would not say he has worked his passage since then and most members of the party here would probably not recognise him in the street. His peerage is of course the one conferred on Herbert Asquith (Mr Asquith) the former Liberal PM. Just two of the series of minor changes in label here which are being caused by Brexit. I think this bonny pair will sit as non-affiliated for the time being at least. So that Stephen in Eastbourne who has resigned the Lib Dem whip over Brexit and now two peers. I wonder if the next election will be LEAVE alliance (Con, Brexit, DUP, UUP), REMAIN alliance (Lib Dem, Plaid, SNP, SDLP, Green, Alliance Party), Labour and Others. If so then would the REMAIN alliance welcome Sinn Fein? We have Campbell-Bannerman and Asquith. You have Farron and Swanson
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Post by tonyhill on Jul 25, 2019 15:41:04 GMT
Sinn Fein is of no relevance to the parliamentary arithmetic.
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Post by nobodyimportant on Jul 25, 2019 18:20:03 GMT
So that Stephen in Eastbourne who has resigned the Lib Dem whip over Brexit and now two peers. I wonder if the next election will be LEAVE alliance (Con, Brexit, DUP, UUP), REMAIN alliance (Lib Dem, Plaid, SNP, SDLP, Green, Alliance Party), Labour and Others. If so then would the REMAIN alliance welcome Sinn Fein? We have Campbell-Bannerman and Asquith. You have Farron and Swanson We have Grieve*, you have Grayling. *Yes I know that a lot of die-hard brexiteers hate him, but that's in large part because he's such a skilled and effective MP - who happens to disagree with them.
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Post by greenchristian on Jul 25, 2019 23:46:16 GMT
Sinn Fein is of no relevance to the parliamentary arithmetic. Not true at all. Sinn Fein are incredibly relevant to calculating how many MPs are needed to obtain a Parliamentary majority.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jul 25, 2019 23:51:26 GMT
Sinn Fein is of no relevance to the parliamentary arithmetic. Not true at all. Sinn Fein are incredibly relevant to calculating how many MPs are needed to obtain a Parliamentary majority. Going back to the OP, I would certainly welcome any of the useless wastes of space being replaced by APNI or at a pinch SDLP MPs.
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