Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 15,263
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Post by Sibboleth on Jun 8, 2018 22:39:43 GMT
Highlighting internal figures that suggest a poll you wish to promote has a bad sample is not very clever, but then Ian Warren is not very clever.
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YouGov
Jun 8, 2018 22:54:49 GMT
Post by beastofbedfordshire on Jun 8, 2018 22:54:49 GMT
^ "Don't talk about this poll, It's bad for us."
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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YouGov
Jun 8, 2018 23:07:00 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 23:07:00 GMT
To be fair to whoever Ian Warren is I would not be be surprised at all if my party were actually leading among “C2DE’s”. It’s our policy platform and values that most closely align with working class people not Labour’s.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 6:40:07 GMT
To be fair to whoever Ian Warren is I would not be be surprised at all if my party were actually leading among “C2DE’s”. It’s our policy platform and values that most closely align with working class people not Labour’s. I suppose it must be easy to say things like that if you don't interact with working class people on a daily basis
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,483
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 9, 2018 8:45:58 GMT
^ "Don't talk about this poll, It's bad for us." That was not what was being said, of course. Rather that subsamples are inherently unreliable and certain "commentators" are unhealthily addicted to cherry-picking them.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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YouGov
Jun 9, 2018 18:53:06 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 18:53:06 GMT
To be fair to whoever Ian Warren is I would not be be surprised at all if my party were actually leading among “C2DE’s”. It’s our policy platform and values that most closely align with working class people not Labour’s. I suppose it must be easy to say things like that if you don't interact with working class people on a daily basis Is that a joke? Seriously? I am working class! I know that the values of the Conservative party are the values of the working class because they’re my values and the values of my friends and family. If you truly think that the ultra pro immigration, anti monarchy, anti military and anti aspiration metropolitan values of Corbynism are working class values then I have absolutely no words. Other than to say it fits the pattern of Socialists to claim and then deny the identity of anyone you disagree with. First I can’t be a Tory because I’m gay, then I’m not a not a real gay because “real” gays can’t be Tories, then I'm considered a class traitor because of course being working class and a Tory and not voting Labour is treachery, now I’m not working class at all? 🙄
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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YouGov
Jun 9, 2018 18:54:17 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 18:54:17 GMT
To be fair to whoever Ian Warren is I would not be be surprised at all if my party were actually leading among “C2DE’s”. It’s our policy platform and values that most closely align with working class people not Labour’s. I suppose it must be easy to say things like that if you don't interact with working class people on a daily basis I also find it interesting that someone down in England thinks that Dundee is some bastion of the wealthy. How sad
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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YouGov
Jun 9, 2018 19:01:15 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 19:01:15 GMT
I suppose it must be easy to say things like that if you don't interact with working class people on a daily basis I also find it interesting that someone down in England thinks that Dundee is some bastion of the wealthy. How sad Though the fact that the Conservative vote in Dundee is heavily concentrated in Broughty Ferry would appear to undermine your thesis somewhat...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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YouGov
Jun 9, 2018 19:03:11 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 19:03:11 GMT
I also find it interesting that someone down in England thinks that Dundee is some bastion of the wealthy. How sad Though the fact that the Conservative vote in Dundee is heavily concentrated in Broughty Ferry would appear to undermine your thesis somewhat... Check the Coldside vote at the council election last year. It’s not insignificant. Yet we’re probably the poorest ward in Dundee. How do you explain that?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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YouGov
Jun 9, 2018 19:26:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 19:26:51 GMT
Though the fact that the Conservative vote in Dundee is heavily concentrated in Broughty Ferry would appear to undermine your thesis somewhat... Check the Coldside vote at the council election last year. It’s not insignificant. Yet we’re probably the poorest ward in Dundee. How do you explain that? It was 11% of first preferences, compared to 42% in the Ferry.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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YouGov
Jun 9, 2018 19:39:55 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 19:39:55 GMT
Check the Coldside vote at the council election last year. It’s not insignificant. Yet we’re probably the poorest ward in Dundee. How do you explain that? It was 11% of first preferences, compared to 42% in the Ferry. Indeed. We were quite pleased with 11% in FP’s alone. Whilst it was 4.9 percent in 2012. That’s a good percentage of FP’s for Tories in Coldside, which is effectively the Hilltown. It would’ve been higher but I can’t tell you the number of people in Closes’ who said a variation of “I’d like to vote Tory but my parents/grandparents would be appalled. I hope you do well though”. Yet according to @priceofdawn I’m apparently some, posh?, guy who doesn’t speak to the people who live all round me and apparently not to my family either.
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YouGov
Jun 9, 2018 20:43:10 GMT
Post by Adam in Stroud on Jun 9, 2018 20:43:10 GMT
It was 11% of first preferences, compared to 42% in the Ferry. Indeed. We were quite pleased with 11% in FP’s alone. Whilst it was 4.9 percent in 2012. That’s a good percentage of FP’s for Tories in Coldside, which is effectively the Hilltown. It would’ve been higher but I can’t tell you the number of people in Closes’ who said a variation of “I’d like to vote Tory but my parents/grandparents would be appalled. I hope you do well though”. Yet according to @priceofdawn I’m apparently some, posh?, guy who doesn’t speak to the people who live all round me and apparently not to my family either. Often a sound approach tbf, irrespective of your social origin.
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mondialito
Labour
Everything is horribly, brutally possible.
Posts: 4,924
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Jun 9, 2018 20:57:03 GMT
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Post by mondialito on Jun 9, 2018 20:57:03 GMT
I suppose it must be easy to say things like that if you don't interact with working class people on a daily basis Is that a joke? Seriously? I am working class! I know that the values of the Conservative party are the values of the working class because they’re my values and the values of my friends and family. If you truly think that the ultra pro immigration, anti monarchy, anti military and anti aspiration metropolitan values of Corbynism are working class values then I have absolutely no words. Other than to say it fits the pattern of Socialists to claim and then deny the identity of anyone you disagree with. First I can’t be a Tory because I’m gay, then I’m not a not a real gay because “real” gays can’t be Tories, then I'm considered a class traitor because of course being working class and a Tory and not voting Labour is treachery, now I’m not working class at all? 🙄 Given that you have made clear your belief that Londoners can't possibly be working class or believe what you believe while voting Labour because they are too 'Metropolitan (wink wink)', you can't really accuse others of denying your identity.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,506
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YouGov
Jun 9, 2018 21:08:32 GMT
Post by Khunanup on Jun 9, 2018 21:08:32 GMT
I suppose it must be easy to say things like that if you don't interact with working class people on a daily basis Is that a joke? Seriously? I am working class! I know that the values of the Conservative party are the values of the working class because they’re my values and the values of my friends and family. If you truly think that the ultra pro immigration, anti monarchy, anti military and anti aspiration metropolitan values of Corbynism are working class values then I have absolutely no words. Other than to say it fits the pattern of Socialists to claim and then deny the identity of anyone you disagree with. First I can’t be a Tory because I’m gay, then I’m not a not a real gay because “real” gays can’t be Tories, then I'm considered a class traitor because of course being working class and a Tory and not voting Labour is treachery, now I’m not working class at all? 🙄 #triggered
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YouGov
Jun 9, 2018 21:09:16 GMT
Post by No Offence Alan on Jun 9, 2018 21:09:16 GMT
Though the fact that the Conservative vote in Dundee is heavily concentrated in Broughty Ferry would appear to undermine your thesis somewhat... Check the Coldside vote at the council election last year. It’s not insignificant. Yet we’re probably the poorest ward in Dundee. How do you explain that? Yooniunism!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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YouGov
Jun 9, 2018 21:21:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 21:21:11 GMT
It was 11% of first preferences, compared to 42% in the Ferry. Indeed. We were quite pleased with 11% in FP’s alone. Whilst it was 4.9 percent in 2012. That’s a good percentage of FP’s for Tories in Coldside, which is effectively the Hilltown. It would’ve been higher but I can’t tell you the number of people in Closes’ who said a variation of “I’d like to vote Tory but my parents/grandparents would be appalled. I hope you do well though”. Yet according to @priceofdawn I’m apparently some, posh?, guy who doesn’t speak to the people who live all round me and apparently not to my family either. I wasn't commenting on your own class nor those who you live with or live in your neighbourhood. But it's probably fair to say they aren't necessarily representative? Any more than myself, my family or my friends are
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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YouGov
Jun 9, 2018 21:22:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 21:22:06 GMT
I suppose it must be easy to say things like that if you don't interact with working class people on a daily basis I also find it interesting that someone down in England thinks that Dundee is some bastion of the wealthy. How sad I make no comment on Dundee having never been there. Please see above
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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YouGov
Jun 9, 2018 21:23:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 21:23:12 GMT
I suppose it must be easy to say things like that if you don't interact with working class people on a daily basis Is that a joke? Seriously? I am working class! I know that the values of the Conservative party are the values of the working class because they’re my values and the values of my friends and family. If you truly think that the ultra pro immigration, anti monarchy, anti military and anti aspiration metropolitan values of Corbynism are working class values then I have absolutely no words. Other than to say it fits the pattern of Socialists to claim and then deny the identity of anyone you disagree with. First I can’t be a Tory because I’m gay, then I’m not a not a real gay because “real” gays can’t be Tories, then I'm considered a class traitor because of course being working class and a Tory and not voting Labour is treachery, now I’m not working class at all? 🙄 Socialism has nothing to do with it. Please see above
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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YouGov
Jun 9, 2018 21:50:13 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 21:50:13 GMT
Is that a joke? Seriously? I am working class! I know that the values of the Conservative party are the values of the working class because they’re my values and the values of my friends and family. If you truly think that the ultra pro immigration, anti monarchy, anti military and anti aspiration metropolitan values of Corbynism are working class values then I have absolutely no words. Other than to say it fits the pattern of Socialists to claim and then deny the identity of anyone you disagree with. First I can’t be a Tory because I’m gay, then I’m not a not a real gay because “real” gays can’t be Tories, then I'm considered a class traitor because of course being working class and a Tory and not voting Labour is treachery, now I’m not working class at all? 🙄 Given that you have made clear your belief that Londoners can't possibly be working class or believe what you believe while voting Labour because they are too 'Metropolitan (wink wink)', you can't really accuse others of denying your identity. Ok. My use of the term “metropolitan” is not a dog whistle for black and brown people, which is your insinuation, it refers to the clash between those in very large cities who hold largely multicultural, pro EU, and pro mass unskilled immigration views and those who live outside them who don’t and how that culture war dominates our politics. If you’ve read anything I’ve ever written on immigration, which isn’t that much to be fair to you, on this forum you will detect zero racial animus. I don’t have any issue with anyone of any other race because of their race. Those that do are unintelligent bigoted fools.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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YouGov
Jun 9, 2018 21:52:37 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 21:52:37 GMT
Is that a joke? Seriously? I am working class! I know that the values of the Conservative party are the values of the working class because they’re my values and the values of my friends and family. If you truly think that the ultra pro immigration, anti monarchy, anti military and anti aspiration metropolitan values of Corbynism are working class values then I have absolutely no words. Other than to say it fits the pattern of Socialists to claim and then deny the identity of anyone you disagree with. First I can’t be a Tory because I’m gay, then I’m not a not a real gay because “real” gays can’t be Tories, then I'm considered a class traitor because of course being working class and a Tory and not voting Labour is treachery, now I’m not working class at all? 🙄 Socialism has nothing to do with it. Please see above You said that I don’t interact with working class people on a daily basis, which is ludicrous and blatantly false, and it is reminiscent of the attacks that those of us who aren’t Labour supporters but are in traditionally Labour voting demographics face. The feminist campaigner and activist Nimco Ali has written eloquently about this same problem.
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