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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 20, 2020 17:29:44 GMT
Breslau/Wroclaw is a fascinating city. Mrs TheGriff's family estate is in the area. Not that she will ever reclaim it. (This fact may explain why I was particularly unimpressed by Strontium's comparing Brexit with the Nazi treatment of Jews. Even Jews who had converted decades earlier to Christianity.) Mrs DW is from a family with even worse luck. One side had their property removed under the Benes decrees and were thrown out. The other side had their existences removed when the Soviets invaded Estonia.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 20, 2020 17:31:25 GMT
Breslau/Wroclaw is a fascinating city. ...and while we GermanSpeakers generally cannot compete with England concerning the discrepance between written and spoken forms of locations, Breslau is one of the few cases, where there is indeed a difference: Instead of /bre:slau/ it's /presslau/ (partly /bresslau/). But not in Silesian dialect, where it became Bressel (with the B sound intact). Sadly, this dialect is almost dead, when once it was crucially important, being the dialect of the works of Hauptmann.
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Jan 20, 2020 17:40:36 GMT
Breslau/Wroclaw is a fascinating city. ...and while we GermanSpeakers generally cannot compete with England concerning the discrepance between written and spoken forms of locations, Breslau is one of the few cases, where there is indeed a difference: Instead of /bre:slau/ it's /presslau/ (partly /bresslau/). Similarly, Wien is pronounced [ˈbeːt͡ʃ].
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Post by iainbhx on Jan 20, 2020 19:28:06 GMT
...and while we GermanSpeakers generally cannot compete with England concerning the discrepance between written and spoken forms of locations, Breslau is one of the few cases, where there is indeed a difference: Instead of /bre:slau/ it's /presslau/ (partly /bresslau/). But not in Silesian dialect, where it became Bressel (with the B sound intact). Sadly, this dialect is almost dead, when once it was crucially important, being the dialect of the works of Hauptmann. A little off-topic but can I recommend the work of the Polish novelist Marek Krajewski - whose Death in Breslau is rather a good crime novel about that city in the interbellum and Inspector Mock is a very interesting anti-hero.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 20, 2020 20:34:14 GMT
...and while we GermanSpeakers generally cannot compete with England concerning the discrepance between written and spoken forms of locations, Breslau is one of the few cases, where there is indeed a difference: Instead of /bre:slau/ it's /presslau/ (partly /bresslau/). Similarly, Wien is pronounced [ˈbeːt͡ʃ]. Nothing in Austria has every been pronounced correctly. (Runs over meadow to Switzerland and hides)
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Post by Peter Wilkinson on Jan 20, 2020 22:53:21 GMT
...and while we GermanSpeakers generally cannot compete with England concerning the discrepance between written and spoken forms of locations, Breslau is one of the few cases, where there is indeed a difference: Instead of /bre:slau/ it's /presslau/ (partly /bresslau/). Similarly, Wien is pronounced [ˈbeːt͡ʃ]. In Hungarian, Turkish and some Slavic languages, certainly. However, I can't recall ever coming across a German or Germanic dialect which pronounces it that way. Could you be so kind as to enlighten me as to what I have been missing?
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Post by finsobruce on Jan 20, 2020 23:34:44 GMT
But not in Silesian dialect, where it became Bressel (with the B sound intact). Sadly, this dialect is almost dead, when once it was crucially important, being the dialect of the works of Hauptmann. A little off-topic but can I recommend the work of the Polish novelist Marek Krajewski - whose Death in Breslau is rather a good crime novel about that city in the interbellum and Inspector Mock is a very interesting anti-hero. Inspector Mock? Worth reading for the name alone.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 21, 2020 0:44:10 GMT
Similarly, Wien is pronounced [ˈbeːt͡ʃ]. In Hungarian, Turkish and some Slavic languages, certainly. However, I can't recall ever coming across a German or Germanic dialect which pronounces it that way. Could you be so kind as to enlighten me as to what I have been missing? I imagine he's referring to Magyar there. The city is, as any fool kno, called Wean. The Slovenes call it Dunaj, which presumably is after the river, but nowhere else calls it that. I wonder how many Germanophone cities are actually pronounced in the standard way by their inhabitants. Certainly not Zueri, Minga, Koelle, Duesseldorp, Hamborg, or Frangford am Maa...
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Post by iainbhx on Jan 21, 2020 7:18:54 GMT
In Hungarian, Turkish and some Slavic languages, certainly. However, I can't recall ever coming across a German or Germanic dialect which pronounces it that way. Could you be so kind as to enlighten me as to what I have been missing? I imagine he's referring to Magyar there. The city is, as any fool kno, called Wean. The Slovenes call it Dunaj, which presumably is after the river, but nowhere else calls it that. I wonder how many Germanophone cities are actually pronounced in the standard way by their inhabitants. Certainly not Zueri, Minga, Koelle, Duesseldorp, Hamborg, or Frangford am Maa... I always thought it was closer to Ween Certainly not Meenz or Dreesten, or anything where Sächsisch is the dominant dialect. Hannover, of course, is pronounced correctly.
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Post by markgoodair on Jan 21, 2020 7:45:57 GMT
Hamburg goes to the polls on 23rd February.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 21, 2020 10:45:11 GMT
Hamburg goes to the polls on 23rd February. The SPD resurgence starts there or not at all.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 21, 2020 10:45:59 GMT
I imagine he's referring to Magyar there. The city is, as any fool kno, called Wean. The Slovenes call it Dunaj, which presumably is after the river, but nowhere else calls it that. I wonder how many Germanophone cities are actually pronounced in the standard way by their inhabitants. Certainly not Zueri, Minga, Koelle, Duesseldorp, Hamborg, or Frangford am Maa... I always thought it was closer to Ween Certainly not Meenz or Dreesten, or anything where Sächsisch is the dominant dialect. Hannover, of course, is pronounced correctly. It really is only after a few extended trips to Germany that you realise quite how well Hanoverians speak. And I've never even been to Hanover!
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 21, 2020 11:59:52 GMT
Hamburg goes to the polls on 23rd February. The SPD resurgence starts there or not at all. The SPD are still propping up the CDU. Hamburg is as heartland SPD a city as can be found, so you are right
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 21, 2020 13:29:54 GMT
The SPD resurgence starts there or not at all. The SPD are still propping up the CDU. Hamburg is as heartland SPD a city as can be found, so you are right That said, I've just done some checking, the SPD share in Hamburg last time out was actually higher than under Schroeder or the early GroKo years. The last time the SPD hit 50 per cent was, surprisingly, 1982. So clearly Hamburg SPD are doing something the rest aren't, which might or might not be the GroKo.
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Sibboleth
Labour
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Posts: 15,371
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Post by Sibboleth on Jan 21, 2020 13:45:14 GMT
That said, I've just done some checking, the SPD share in Hamburg last time out was actually higher than under Schroeder or the early GroKo years. The last time the SPD hit 50 per cent was, surprisingly, 1982. So clearly Hamburg SPD are doing something the rest aren't, which might or might not be the GroKo. The CDU administration there degenerated into a horrifying mess and they won back to back landslides off the backlash to that. This election will be more competitive, though there's disagreement from pollsters on how much so.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 21, 2020 13:49:44 GMT
That said, I've just done some checking, the SPD share in Hamburg last time out was actually higher than under Schroeder or the early GroKo years. The last time the SPD hit 50 per cent was, surprisingly, 1982. So clearly Hamburg SPD are doing something the rest aren't, which might or might not be the GroKo. The CDU administration there degenerated into a horrifying mess and they won back to back landslides off the backlash to that. This election will be more competitive, though there's disagreement from pollsters on how much so. The CDU and CSU regimes really were a mixed bag then weren't they? Giants like Bernie Vogel in the Palatinate (later on Thuringia) on one side, and complete shit shows like Hamburg or Lower Saxony under von der Leyen's dad.
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Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,274
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 22, 2020 16:00:41 GMT
Hamburg's DeViations from german average in federal elections (EP-ones in italics):
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Post by iainbhx on Jan 22, 2020 19:31:09 GMT
That said, I've just done some checking, the SPD share in Hamburg last time out was actually higher than under Schroeder or the early GroKo years. The last time the SPD hit 50 per cent was, surprisingly, 1982. So clearly Hamburg SPD are doing something the rest aren't, which might or might not be the GroKo. The CDU administration there degenerated into a horrifying mess and they won back to back landslides off the backlash to that. This election will be more competitive, though there's disagreement from pollsters on how much so. Ah yes, the first Black-Green coalition, one where the Greens would quite like to say they were present but not involved. It was OK under von Beust although it was starting to slide but Ahlhaus was a disaster and his expenses were a riot. Looks very much like the only real movement will be between the SPD and the GRÜ with other parties being fairly same-same, SPD will come out on top, but it will be a more even coalition.
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Post by curiousliberal on Jan 22, 2020 20:09:43 GMT
How disappointing do these results have to be to critically endanger AKK's position? It's the last state election prior to the CDU conference in December of 2020; I could see her recovering from a poor result if the CDU had gradually recovered in the polls by the year's end. However, if the results are especially disastrous, how much could good polls count for against a poor electoral record?
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Post by iainbhx on Jan 23, 2020 7:13:11 GMT
How disappointing do these results have to be to critically endanger AKK's position? It's the last state election prior to the CDU conference in December of 2020; I could see her recovering from a poor result if the CDU had gradually recovered in the polls by the year's end. However, if the results are especially disastrous, how much could good polls count for against a poor electoral record? They don't count, Hamburg is a tiny and very different Land and not at all typical. Unless the CDU drop down to about 10%, no one will blink. The Kreistage in Bayern in March and in NRW in September will be watched, but whilst fought by political parties, often in some odd local alliances (especially in the Spezialstaat), they won't tell us that much. AKK might go if things go really tits up in Rheinland-Pfalz or BaWü in Spring 2021 but to be honest, barring miracles, it looks like Black-Green is on the cards. I wonder if Berlin will have its Abgeordnetenhauswahl at the same time as the Bundestagwahl - MeVo will but I can see the advantage to the Berlin "coalition" of them not.
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