The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 8, 2013 16:20:13 GMT
I don't particularly like Sinn Fein and highly doubt if I would ever vote for them (certainly not if any decent alternative was available)
But the fact is they *are* now a mostly respectable and mainstream political party. If the DUP can now accept that, maybe it is high time right wingers on here did??
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 18:17:19 GMT
To describe the murder of a candidate's father by the IRA as "something" brings euphemism to new depths. If their main objective was simply to defeat Sinn Féin then they could have endorsed the SDLP candidate. It would appear, however, that their main objective was to get a 'Unionist' elected, irrespective of other political views.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 18:19:25 GMT
I am pleased with the SDLP share of the vote - not just the percentage but the actual votes cast rose compared to 2010 and that is encouraging.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 8, 2013 19:05:38 GMT
They do a much better job of articulating the practical and everyday concerns and interests of Catholic voters than the (in most places) painfully middle class and rather (small 'c') conservative SDLP manage. It's really not that complicated. The SDLP might be middle class, but I think they are rather more articulate, sensible and reflective of normality (what are the differences exactly in concerns that Sinn Fein represent better than the SDLP?) Sinn Fein are, were and always will be a bunch of thugs masquerading as politicans. Way to miss the point. Of course a British Tory would think that. British Tories are, however, not exactly Sinn Fein's target audience. The (not even slightly complicated, confusing or in any way perplexing) reality is that Sinn Fein operates a part social democratic part clientelist political machine, which happens to be what most Catholics in Northern Ireland want.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 8, 2013 19:06:56 GMT
But the fact is they *are* now a mostly respectable and mainstream political party. If the DUP can now accept that, maybe it is high time right wingers on here did?? Yes, the civil war is over now.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Mar 8, 2013 19:19:01 GMT
On the local NI political programme just after the BBC 10 o'clock News, there was a fascinating report about how Sinn Féin were in a terrible bind over the opening of the first Marie Stopes clinic in Belfast. An amendment due to be debated in the NI Assembly next week would ban it. Sinn Féin has been threatening to raise a 'petition of concern' which would in effect block the amendment.
Sinn Féin's left-wing progressive instincts are to do just that. But Sinn Féin's core voters think it would be a betrayal of fundamental values.
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Post by irish observer on Mar 8, 2013 19:56:19 GMT
To echo Sibboleth's point since they have taken electoral politics seriously Sinn Féin have always been better organised than the SDLP. There has always existed in any case a significant section of the nationalist electorate who would support physical-force candidates. Pre ceasefire they were not the majority but as Sinn Féin adopted/cannibalised all of the SDLP's policies they appealed to more middle class voters and so eventually surpassed them in 2001. The main reasons are the historic inertia within the SDLP as a political party which was riven with fiefdoms from its foundation and which behaved as a personality cult together with the actions of Irish and British governments who forced Northern parties to accept that Sinn Féin was becoming legit and who sacrificed the SDLP to the wolves as a result.
A late cousin of mine was a founder member of the SDLP and sat in Stormount and in Sunningdale and I would rather the majority of the people still support them but the middle class label has stuck together with their poor organisation. Good books on the subject include "John Hume & The SDLP: Impact & Survival in Northern Ireland" by Gerard Murray and "Sinn Féin & the SDLP: From Alienation to Participation" by Gerard Murray & Jonathan Tonge and Fionnuala O'Connor's "In Search of a State: Catholics in Northern Ireland."
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Post by irish observer on Mar 8, 2013 20:16:11 GMT
I am pleased with the SDLP share of the vote - not just the percentage but the actual votes cast rose compared to 2010 and that is encouraging. That can be put down to McGlone solely, a good candidate. It was only a 3% rise in the vote, however. SF will take a lot of positives out of the result and the Unionists will think they can do deals on Unionist Unity candidates in Fermanagh & South Tyrone, South Belfast, North Down and possibly East Belfast as well. Of course the new Unionist party will be a feature in the stronger Unionist and more urban strongholds.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 20:18:56 GMT
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Pimpernal
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Post by Pimpernal on Mar 8, 2013 22:02:25 GMT
Am I missing something - Macguiness stood down to avoid double hatting - in order that Molloy could, erm, wear two hats instead?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 22:12:51 GMT
On the local NI political programme just after the BBC 10 o'clock News, there was a fascinating report about how Sinn Féin were in a terrible bind over the opening of the first Marie Stopes clinic in Belfast. An amendment due to be debated in the NI Assembly next week would ban it. Sinn Féin has been threatening to raise a 'petition of concern' which would in effect block the amendment. Sinn Féin's left-wing progressive instincts are to do just that. But Sinn Féin's core voters think it would be a betrayal of fundamental values. Proper politics ... the more you hear of this the better it is
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 8, 2013 22:31:05 GMT
Something like that anyway..
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 8, 2013 22:31:40 GMT
Am I missing something - Macguiness stood down to avoid double hatting - in order that Molloy could, erm, wear two hats instead? No, Molloy is giving up his Assembly seat (which will be filled by co-option, not election)
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Pimpernal
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Post by Pimpernal on Mar 9, 2013 6:47:45 GMT
Aaahhh - so he's effectively retiring and making way for someone else...
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Post by thirdchill on Mar 9, 2013 11:28:12 GMT
I am pleased with the SDLP share of the vote - not just the percentage but the actual votes cast rose compared to 2010 and that is encouraging. That can be put down to McGlone solely, a good candidate. It was only a 3% rise in the vote, however. SF will take a lot of positives out of the result and the Unionists will think they can do deals on Unionist Unity candidates in Fermanagh & South Tyrone, South Belfast, North Down and possibly East Belfast as well. Of course the new Unionist party will be a feature in the stronger Unionist and more urban strongholds. I'm highly doubtful about South Belfast and I think they would be foolish to even try. Yes they would probably win with a unity candidate but as the sitting MP is SDLP they would not come out of it well. Standing against Sinn Fein could be justified on the grounds that they don't take their seats in the house of commons. I can't think of a single justification of a unity candidate against the SDLP.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 9, 2013 11:33:17 GMT
er... how about getting a Unionist MP elected in place of a Nationalist? From your perspective a Sinn Fein MP should be preferable to an SDLP one precisely because they don;t take their seats. The SDLP MPs take the Labour whip
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 9, 2013 12:43:52 GMT
Aaahhh - so he's effectively retiring and making way for someone else... Yes, he's effectively been put out to pasture.
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Post by greatkingrat on Mar 9, 2013 14:08:41 GMT
I guess being given a Westminster seat is now the Sinn Fein equivalent of offering someone a life peerage.
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Post by timrollpickering on Mar 9, 2013 14:52:31 GMT
Belfast South doesn't look like fertile ground for a Unionist unity candidate. The Unionist vote has already fallen with chunks going to the Alliance and even the SDLP and the combined DUP/UCUNF vote last time was just behind them already. A Unity candidate would probably shed even more Unionist votes to the centre and then there's even the McAllister/McCrea party that could take some more. This is the kind of seat with a Unionist vote that doesn't take too kindly to being taken for granted and which will vote accordingly, and where a Robinesbitt Unionist would not be to everyone's taste.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2013 17:53:00 GMT
Belfast South doesn't look like fertile ground for a Unionist unity candidate. The Unionist vote has already fallen with chunks going to the Alliance and even the SDLP and the combined DUP/UCUNF vote last time was just behind them already. A Unity candidate would probably shed even more Unionist votes to the centre and then there's even the McAllister/McCrea party that could take some more. This is the kind of seat with a Unionist vote that doesn't take too kindly to being taken for granted and which will vote accordingly, and where a Robinesbitt Unionist would not be to everyone's taste. I agree - Alasdair McDowell has assiduously built up this seat (and its predecessors) since 1979 and it will not be easily lost by him, not least now when he leads the SDLP. A Unionist Unity candidate would do worse here than perhaps in any other constituency in Northern Ireland. The 'hard' Unionist voter is a disappearing commodity here and whilst there will always be a hope of a Unionist MP if Alisdair McDowell retired soon, it could become an Alliance target in the future.
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