Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2018 10:18:20 GMT
What about very young children who haven’t been vaccinated? Why put them at risk? None of the state's business on a point of principle. Might as well introduce universal 'guardianship' as the SNP like to call it. Totalitarian, monstrous, dystopian stuff. I don’t agree with the snoopers charter, no one should, but if small children are at risk and start dying, and there’s no way you can prevent that unless you isolate all non vaccinated children, which I obviously do not support, that is the governments business. The first duty of a government is to protect the lives of its citizens.
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Post by mrpastelito on Mar 6, 2018 10:29:25 GMT
None of the state's business on a point of principle. Might as well introduce universal 'guardianship' as the SNP like to call it. Totalitarian, monstrous, dystopian stuff. I don’t agree with the snoopers charter, no one should, but if small children are at risk and start dying, and there’s no way you can prevent that unless you isolate all non vaccinated children, which I obviously do not support, that is the governments business. The first duty of a government is to protect the lives of its citizens. Well obviously I don't agree. The first duty of a government is to serve its citizens, the second to keep out of their lives. No objection to offering vaccinations.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 6, 2018 11:29:13 GMT
I've just spotted that anti-vaccination crankery is part of the MS5 platform. If that's just about opposition to compulsory vaccinations then I agree. Absolutely illiberal and authoritarian. You would say that though, wouldn't you? They don't object on libertarian grounds anyway. They object tout court.
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Post by mrpastelito on Mar 6, 2018 11:37:03 GMT
If that's just about opposition to compulsory vaccinations then I agree. Absolutely illiberal and authoritarian. You would say that though, wouldn't you? They don't object on libertarian grounds anyway. They object tout court. Hence my 'if'
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Mar 6, 2018 12:07:31 GMT
Compulsory vaccination is a very difficult subject for me. I want the state to be as firm as possible, I'd even accept small fine/tickets analysis to seat-belt laws. But I'm opposed to criminal sanction or active compulsion.
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Izzyeviel
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I stayed up for Hartlepools
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Post by Izzyeviel on Mar 6, 2018 13:48:46 GMT
I should really nominate myself for the amazingly stupid thread. I had the chance to learn a bit about the 5 star movement late last year & i was like 'aren't they run by a comedian? Pointless learning about them, they'll never get anywhere!'
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Post by Andrew_S on Mar 6, 2018 15:40:51 GMT
Did the PD generally do best in places with a lot of students and academics?
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Mar 6, 2018 16:59:10 GMT
To a certain extent they are similar to PODEMOS, but generally they are nothing else than a clueless MiddleFinger to the establishment. With the difference that Iglesias is a really, really clever, intelligent and educated man - the kind of political opponent you have the utmost respect for. Like all the others only a small agitator, who is full of envy hidden behind "ideals", whose "intelligence" is some ahistoric formula taken from "politologists" and "PsychoAnalysis", whose "education" are some films and mediocre novels/crimis (all contemporary, of course) - entertaining, not more. Even in better times even StatesMen weren't intelligent. (And that was the basis of their success...)
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Sibboleth
Labour
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 6, 2018 17:02:32 GMT
Did the PD generally do best in places with a lot of students and academics? Lord no. The PD isn't far off being a pensioners party.
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Post by greenhert on Mar 6, 2018 17:15:43 GMT
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Post by greenchristian on Mar 6, 2018 17:40:22 GMT
What about very young children who haven’t been vaccinated? Why put them at risk? None of the state's business on a point of principle. Might as well introduce universal 'guardianship' as the SNP like to call it. Totalitarian, monstrous, dystopian stuff. Leading Independent claims elimination of Smallpox was dystopian.
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 6, 2018 21:36:41 GMT
Of course what Lega and 5 Star have in common is uncrtical admiration bordering on worship of Vladimir Putin..
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andrea
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Post by andrea on Mar 6, 2018 22:39:21 GMT
Interior Ministry has finally assigned the Italians Abroad's seats even if they have not updated the final votes tally.
Anyway, at the House it is
Europe: 2 PD, 1 Lega/Forza Italia, 1 5 Stars, 1 +Europa
North America: 1 PD, 1 Forza Italia/Lega
South America: 1 MAEI, 1 USAI, 1 PD, 1 Forza Italia/Lega
Africa, Asia and Oceania: 1 PD
Senate:
Europe: 1 PD, 1 Lega/Forza Italia
North America: 1 Forza Italia/Lega
South America: 1 MAIE, 1 USEI
Africa, Asia and Oceania: 1 PD
United Kingdom. House of Deputies. 102 out of 106 reported. Results so far:
PD 33.24% 5 Stars 26.21% Lega/Forza Italia/Brothers of Italy 17% +Europe 12% Free and Equal 6.72% UDC Union of Christian Democrats 2.59% Movement of Freedom 1.12% Lorenz list 0.8% PRI 0.28%
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Mar 6, 2018 22:55:05 GMT
The heading mentions "euroscetticisimo" which isn't a word. I think you mean either euroscetticissimo, which would mean 'extremely Eurosceptic' or most likely euroscetticismo, which means Euroscepticisim. I'm not sure that the first part is the best way to say 'Renzi has failed' either (but from here, someone like Andrea or Arthur could give you better guidance on that front). I realise the new electoral law in Italy is needlessly complicated and confusing, but the text also flips from citing a 5% to a 3% threshold further down. As for M5S's anti-vax nonsense that others were talking about: it would be risible were it not for the fact that so many parents in many countries now take it so seriously. Of course it's the government's business to ensure that all children are innoculated, unless you don't understand how mass immunisation is the only way to make it scientifically worthwhile.
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Post by mrpastelito on Mar 6, 2018 23:01:35 GMT
With the difference that Iglesias is a really, really clever, intelligent and educated man - the kind of political opponent you have the utmost respect for. Like all the others only a small agitator, who is full of envy hidden behind "ideals", whose "intelligence" is some ahistoric formula taken from "politologists" and "PsychoAnalysis", whose "education" are some films and mediocre novels/crimis (all contemporary, of course) - entertaining, not more. Even in better times even StatesMen weren't intelligent. (And that was the basis of their success...) Not so, Georg. A very close friend of mine (a staunch reactionary herself) knows him from university and says he's one of the sharpest minds she's ever met. She says he's actually capable of thinking for himself and of reasoning, something which can't be said of 95% of the general populace. It's just a shame that he's also an ideologue, and one who has nailed his colours to the wrong mast to boot, but then I suppose it's not easy to leave your family's history behind you, especially in Spain.
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Post by janwhitby on Mar 6, 2018 23:16:00 GMT
I've just spotted that anti-vaccination crankery is part of the MS5 platform. To be fair to them, vaccines are compulsory in Italy and a decision of the Court of Justice of Rimini in March 2012 awarded vaccine-injury compensation for a case of autism www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28736200
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Mar 6, 2018 23:38:50 GMT
Like all the others only a small agitator, who is full of envy hidden behind "ideals", whose "intelligence" is some ahistoric formula taken from "politologists" and "PsychoAnalysis", whose "education" are some films and mediocre novels/crimis (all contemporary, of course) - entertaining, not more. Even in better times even StatesMen weren't intelligent. (And that was the basis of their success...) Not so, Georg. A very close friend of mine (a staunch reactionary herself) knows him from university and says he's one of the sharpest minds she's ever met. She says he's actually capable of thinking for himself and of reasoning, something which can't be said of 95% of the general populace. It's just a shame that he's also an ideologue, and one who has nailed his colours to the wrong mast to boot, but then I suppose it's not easy to leave your family's history behind you, especially in Spain. "A woman can be a staunch Conservative or Liberal or Progressive, but never a Reactionary." "The intellect of a marxist petrifies in time, that of a LeftWinger becomes muddy." (GOMEZ DAVILA)
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Post by Lord Twaddleford on Mar 6, 2018 23:54:36 GMT
I've just spotted that anti-vaccination crankery is part of the MS5 platform. To be fair to them, vaccines are compulsory in Italy and a decision of the Court of Justice of Rimini in March 2012 awarded vaccine-injury compensation for a case of autism www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28736200Good. This is the one issue where I will unashamedly declare myself an absolute authoritarian. I don't care if one doesn't care about their own health, but it is utterly unconsionable to allow someone to act as a vector for dangerous but otherwise preventable diseases. *sigh* There's one for the Amazing Stupidity and Ignorance thread. Out of all the effects that vaccinations can possibly have, causing autism is not one of them, and seeing that a court somewhere made this decision actually made me facepalm. Even if vaccines were a cause of autism (they're not), it is something of an indictment on those parents who object on that ground in particular; you'd seriously rather leave your children vulnerable to deadly diseases, rather than risk them being autistic? And that's ignoring that fact that by not vaccinating you're putting other people at risk: the elderly, the immunocompromised, children too young to be vaccinated... Let's face it, even without their anti-vax bullshit platform, the 5 Star Movement quite clearly are a bunch of complete idiots, that is to say, rather dangerous complete idiots.
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Sibboleth
Labour
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 7, 2018 0:57:02 GMT
Hail KRUSTY King of Italy: This is a hell of a map.
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 7, 2018 1:03:01 GMT
Amongst other things what you're looking at, I think, is an electoral backlash against the elimination of redistribution from Italy's policy toolkit. It was present throughout the First Republic (reaching its apex during the 1970s: the high point of influence of the DC factions very keen on it and of the PCI and its affiliates) and survived its collapse and the rise of the Lega, but not the financial crisis. And we have just had five years of Left government without it - I note that the strongest places in all Italy for MS5 are the parts of the south that are ancestrally Commie.
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