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Post by warofdreams on Sept 6, 2017 23:40:35 GMT
A couple of ideas on the scope of the 10% variance: Only allowed when the majority of the constituency is made up of wards exceeding specified electorate eg; 10000. Limited to specific circumstances eg; avoid split ward, orphan ward, or meet overall electoral quota (thinking of spare 0.39/0.47 in London). We obviously do want reasonable electoral equality between constituencies and there's no real need for 10% in Northern Ireland, Wales, North East etc, where ward boundaries are small enough to make goods seats within 5%, so there would probably need to be some limitation on the 10% variance. Also, the current constituencies are so uneven that even a universal 10% variance limit would be a big improvement on the status quo I would much rather see the commission willing to split large wards, where necessary, rather than either form seats well off the quota, or (as in the last two attempts) forming seats of disparate areas with the only merit of being formed of whole wards within quota.
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Long may it rain
Posts: 5,507
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Post by Foggy on Sept 7, 2017 0:02:00 GMT
There is an important distinction between Ynys Mon and the "protected status" seats you mention. You can walk (I have!) to the neighbouring constituency. As have I, many times there and back. I've also taken the ferry both ways between Cowes and Southampton. I don't see what that has to do with the respective status of each island at boundary reviews, though. Either Wight and Anglesey are both protected, or neither should be.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,516
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Post by Khunanup on Sept 7, 2017 1:34:22 GMT
There is an important distinction between Ynys Mon and the "protected status" seats you mention. You can walk (I have!) to the neighbouring constituency. As have I, many times there and back. I've also taken the ferry both ways between Cowes and Southampton. I don't see what that has to do with the respective status of each island at boundary reviews, though. Either Wight and Anglesey are both protected, or neither should be. If you're including bridged islands I'd like protected status for Portsea Island as well please, and Walney, Skye, Sheppey etc...
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,757
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Sept 7, 2017 7:24:21 GMT
Could I ask the following? What would be the effect of regional electoral quotas based on that regions population as a percentage of the UK population? For instance Wales has a population of 3.063 million out of a UK population of 65.64 million (4.66%) and therefore the electoral quota for Wales should be 4.66% lower than the UK as a whole (67,930 to 75,080) How on Earth do you get that "therefore"? According to the same logic, England is about 85% of the UK population, therefore the quota for England should be 85% less than th UK as a whole, i.e. about 10,000. Or did you mean something completely different from what you wrote? There should be a reflection that a region's population should be put into the context of the national population and it's electoral quota adjusted to reflect that difference
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Sept 7, 2017 8:35:36 GMT
For instance England has a population of 53.01 million out of a UK population of 65.64 million (83.3%) and therefore the electoral quota for England should be 83.3% lower than the UK as a whole (12,541 to 75,080).
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,531
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 7, 2017 9:17:31 GMT
This is silly, the point about Ynys Mon is that its electorate is big enough to justify its own seat even if somewhat "undersized".
And it has been its own constituency for just how long now?
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,757
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Sept 7, 2017 10:13:08 GMT
This is silly, the point about Ynys Mon is that its electorate is big enough to justify its own seat even if somewhat "undersized". And it has been its own constituency for just how long now? There has been an Anglesey / Ynys Môn constituency since 1535 . The history of other islands are: Isle of WightOrkney and ShetlandThe Western Isles / Na h-Eileanan an Iar
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Sept 7, 2017 10:37:47 GMT
There has been an Anglesey / Ynys Môn constituency since 1535 Nothing lasts for ever, and all good things must come to an end. There are two bridges, soon to be three, connecting Ynys Mon to the Mainland. The widest part of the Menai Strait is 1,100m and the narrowest part of the Solent is around 4,000m. I don't think you can compare Ynys Mon to the Isle of White and you certainly can't compare it to the Western Isles and Orkney. How about an interim review, reducing the seats to 640 by a once-off reduction of 10 seats in Wales to combat their over-representation? No, as it would lead to underrepresentation. 30 seats for Wales was right with 600 seats. With 650, they are entitled 32. I'd be happy with 32.
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Post by therealriga on Sept 7, 2017 10:38:25 GMT
I would much rather see the commission willing to split large wards, where necessary, rather than either form seats well off the quota, or (as in the last two attempts) forming seats of disparate areas with the only merit of being formed of whole wards within quota. I would like to see a statutory limit on the maximum electorate of a ward. Or just go to single-member wards in England and Wales. I don't see the value of multi-member wards under FPTP.
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Post by justin124 on Sept 7, 2017 10:50:47 GMT
Wales only had 36 seats until - I believe - 1983. Reverting to that number would seem reasonable given the possible extension of Devolution to the English regions in due course.
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Post by jigger on Sept 7, 2017 11:05:12 GMT
It's quite simple - all 4 nations of the UK should use the same quota.
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Post by justin124 on Sept 7, 2017 11:07:39 GMT
Not everyone accepts the existence of 4 nations anyway! What about the Cornish?
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Post by justin124 on Sept 7, 2017 11:27:21 GMT
Not everyone accepts the existence of 4 nations anyway! What about the Cornish? The United Kingdom is one nation... I certainly think of GB as a nation.
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Post by justin124 on Sept 7, 2017 11:42:01 GMT
There were also quite a few Tories who would not back the proposals.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,516
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Post by Khunanup on Sept 7, 2017 11:52:04 GMT
If you're including bridged islands I'd like protected status for Portsea Island as well please, and Walney, Skye, Sheppey etc... How about causewayed islands? Barry Island? Lindisfarne? Why stop there? Peninsulars too! Wirral, Holderness and many, many more...
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 7, 2017 13:23:13 GMT
I'm really not surprised. I wonder how much influence the DUP had over this decision? I know they were very worried about the impact of a reduction of seats in Northern Ireland, e.g. Belfast East would disappear from the map. The proposals would have not helped them at all. The current map, as the last election displayed, favours the two big parties in NI. But I think this is down to the Tories. The redistribution was not likely to produce the benefits they had expected and it would mean current Tory MP's losing their seats Also its very much a Cameron idea, and May clearly hates him and wants to obliterate him from memory
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Post by jigger on Sept 7, 2017 13:42:28 GMT
It's quite simple - all 4 nations of the UK should use the same quota. No - I disagree, England making up such a large portion of the population should make concessions to its allowance to ensure all 4 nations in our union pack a significant punch vote wise. I would increase the number of constituencies to 750 but for distribution purposes I would raise the populations of Scotland (excluding protected islands), Wales & NI by a third. Our politics is far to England centric and this has caused far too much talk of division in recent years. Even though Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have devolved legislatures (though of course the Northern Ireland Assembly is not presently operative)? If anything, given the fact that England currently has no Parliament of its own, there is a very strong argument that the quota should be lower for England than for the other three nations of the UK. I don't happen to agree with that because England is so dominant that it almost always gets its way anyway. But the argument is certainly stronger for England having a lower quota than is the argument for the other 3 nations having a lower quota than England. Of course, in my ideal world there would be an English Parliament and we truly would be a family of nations.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 14:09:36 GMT
Thank god for that.
The recommendations for constituency boundaries were awful.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Sept 7, 2017 15:53:25 GMT
The United Kingdom is one nation... I certainly think of GB as a nation. What about the UK?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 16:52:54 GMT
Thank god for that. The recommendations for constituency boundaries were awful. Scotland is going to be left in an absolute state after this. Say hello to Skye, Lochaber & North Perthshire and Dundee Central & St Andrews... Yuck! I miss the old boundaries (1983 - 1997 and 1997 - 2005 or so) much simpler. Although the pre-83 ones are beautiful with those vast rural divisions in Aberdeenshire and Perthshire. What a mess we could end up with!! 😭😭😭
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